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Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23771		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  superheater [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY?
Assume for a minute that you've got a friendly local shortline that would entertain the thoughts of running a steam locomotive, whether or not its true. Assume further you have a reasonable shot of getting sufficient funds.

Is there a locomotive out there that would be restorable to operating condition? Criteria:

Its currently not committed to static display-so skip the
N&W A & J, as well as anything in RMPA in Strasburg.

Its KNOWN to have no missing major components or components that might be in bad shape-so skip engines that are sitting exposed with lagging hanging from the boiler, concealing water, engines where the last fire was left to burn out with dumping the ash, engines with uncapped stacks, visible "rust through", cracked large castings, etc.

It wasn't beaten into the ground by an operating department he**-bent on doing what ONLY what was necessary until ALCO or EMD could send the next order..

You get the idea.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
Let's look at your criteria.

The only way we're ever likely to find a steam loco NOT "missing components", "committed to static display", etc. is to find either a currently-operating/operable one (see, for example, Ohio Central's fleet, or Strasburg's, or long-term projects like Grand Canyon's ex-SP&S 539 or Strasburg's ex-Hart CP 972.....) OR find something that has truly been locked away in the proverbial barn for fifty-plus years.

I think the removal of the West Va. Northern 2-8-0's from the Leap farm at Madley, Pa, for the West Va. RR Museum may well have been the last possible steam locos in North America that fit the latter criteria. That, or the steam locos up at Eagle Lake, Maine......... or maybe the ex-GTW 0-8-0 in Galt..........

Now, expand your criteria to include "stuffed/mounted" display locos, and you may have an actual discussion. After all, NKP 2-8-4 763 was "committed to display," no?
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
Super, with some vision and perhaps a private-public partnership, MEC 2-8-0 No 501 could run on the Rockland branch in beautiful coastal Maine. The branch is owned by the State of Maine and operated by the Morristown & Erie as the "Maine Eastern." The branch has turning capability at either end with a functional wye and turntable.

The 501 has been determined to be an excellent candidate for operational restoration.

Unfotunately the owners of the loco, the 470 Club, have recently decided to pursue cosmetic restoration and continued display.
No matter what, the 501 is going to look terrific once the fine folks at Conway Scenic are done with her!
Author:  John Bohon [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
I guess it depends a little on what size engine you need. Let's start small and work up

If you are looking to start a truely small operation Southern Wood Piedmont 0-4-0t number 3 at Ohio Central may be one of the best little engines that could be available. I have no reason to believe it is available but I suppose everything has a price tag. Of course the small size of these engines make any with a sound boiler and frame doable. The size meaning it is not going to be as costly to repair.

Middletown and Hummelstown has a 2-6-0 with nothing to do. It basically needs someone with a railroad who is not afraid to run it and money to put into the operation.

If you want to go a little bigger Brian Flemming has a 2-8-0 that was in service on the Mount Hood yesterday and is out of work today. The boiler is still hot so all you need to do is strike a match. I suspect both it and the 20 are now available. Jack Showalter has 2 CP pacifics that should be in good condition. Depending on who you talk to they are available and if the reports are corrrect one could be running with installation of flues and reassembly. I would probably choose one of these engines if all other things were equal.

TVRM has 2 engines that could fit the bill. Southern 4501 is complete and basically just waiting her turn in the shop. It may be posible to lease this one but outright ownership would not be a option. The CN pacific 5288 may be a candidate as perhaps a zero mileage engine. Like 4501 I have no reason to believe it is available.

If you can run superpower then NKP 765 would be among the most available and all you need is some coal and a match. There is one Reading T-1 in operating condition but out of work and another that is complete but in need of everything. I have no idea if either is available but they are potential doable engines.

One point I would like to make is that several of the engines listed above are probably not any more available than some park engines. Even then you do not know what may become available in the future. Perhaps some of these will have to be acted upon quickly to be had when the time comes. That would include both public and privately available engines. Of the park engines I know of, WM pacific number 202 may be the best possible candidate. It was supposedly returned to operating condition and never steamed. Now it sits in the park under a roof needing a new FRA certification to run plus whatever the original repairs may have not included.

I am sure there are a lot of other engines. The trick is to find one that is available when you need it. There are only so many to choose from at any given time. Currently the most available and possibly the cheapest may be either the Chinese QJ's or perhaps one of the SY class mikes either in the states or still in China. I would assume the SY at Knox and Cane could be bought eventually, perhaps not now though.

John Bohon
Author:  Dave [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
Hi Supe - interesting question.

FEC 113. Jack's 0-6-0 in Ohio. Reader 108. Off the top of my head, based on stuff I've laid hands on within the past few years. I know there's much more out there I haven't touched, so please excuse my ignorance.

There's no shortage of restorable locomotives, but the locomotive must be suited to its proposed use, which is a much more limiting situation. For large jobs, the best bargain is the QJ option by far. For smaller stuff - well, define the parameters. I could really use a 3 foot gage 2-8-0 right now........

Sorry Sandy, the Leap 2-8-0's fail abysmally on the issue of condition. I've worked on a lot of beat to death industrial hogs, and few have such a variety of issues to be dealt with as these two. The best didn't have one part that hadn't been patched out in the woods in some way in the past.

I'd say the best candidate is the one that is needed for a proven and defined purpose of operation by a user with the resources to do the job, and the business to keep it going, without political and other interference.

dave
Author:  John Bohon [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
Giving this subject a little more thought perhaps the best and most available standard gauge locomotive for sale today that is reportedly in near new condition would the USA S-160 2-8-0 number 557. This engine is idealy suited for many branchline operations and assuming the advertisement I read is true is in like new condition. There are no patches in the firebox and many of the parts appear to be original factory installed material. This may be one of the last truely easy restorations available. Having worked on the original restoration of TVRM 610 I can tell you working with a like new locomotive is a pleasure and will make restoration much faster and easier.

John Bohon
Author:  superheater [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  CN 91
Since it ran just a few years ago, consider 91 already restored.
Author:  superheater [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  s-160
Somebody posted a sepia-toned pic of TVRRM's 610 taken during a night photo session on a pic site, was a really neat picture, and they look like neat engines. Really wanted to have seen it in action at the last convention, but circumstances wouldn't allow it.

Where's the 557?

On a related question when did the baker equipped U.S. Army engine that ran on the Ma & Pa meet its end?
Author:  superheater [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
Now, expand your criteria to include "stuffed/mounted" display locos, and you may have an actual discussion. After all, NKP 2-8-4 763 was "committed to display," no?

Apparently not. By committed, I mean under no imaginable circumstances, even if the circumstances happen to involve Mr. J's OCRR.

I don't imagine for example that RRMPA would part with 757, Nor do I Cal State would part with the Espee Cab Forward, even if it was "practicable" to run.

Of course this is somewhat speculative, since perhaps the test of commitment comes when there's an offer from a good home to adopt an engine and put it to work.

As for missing components, I should have specified "major". Jewelry doesn't count. Main rod does.
Author:  John Bohon [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: s-160
The 557 is part of the collection of Monte Holms and being handled by Wasatch Railroad Contractors. It is an oil burner from Alaska. I believe it is now in Utah but for the life of me can not remember for sure. If you are interested you should contact WRC.

As usual, I have no interest in this locmotive beyond passing along information.

John Bohon
Author:  Txhighballer [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: s-160
Are you sure it was Baker gear or poppet valves? I kow of the poppet valve one,but not the Baker equipped S160
Author:  Alan Maples [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: s-160
superheater wrote:
On a related question when did the baker equipped U.S. Army engine that ran on the Ma & Pa meet its end?


U.S. Army No. 611 was equipped with the Franklin Poppet Valve. Donated to the Texas State Railroad and later traded to the Tennessee Valley Railroad, where it is presently stored.

http://saulnadler.railfan.net/display.cgi?USArmy611part2.jpg

Alan Maples
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: s-160
Cass has sister Army 2-8-0 612 sitting around rusting away.......... missing a bunch of stuff, I recall, but certainly not unrestorable if you're determined enough..........
Author:  Jim Lundquist [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
In Campo, the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum is currently surveying the SP #2353 (4-6-0) and the Coos Bay #11 (2-8-2T). Both could run again, with an operating railroad and operating museum ready, willing and able. Just need $$$.
Author:  thirdrail [ Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best Operating Steam Restoration Candidate -Is There ANY
What is the location and condition of Bonhomie & Hattiesburg Southern No. 250? Has been my favorite locomotive since I got a chance to crack her throttle in November 1958. Last I heard she was stored in New Hampshire.
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