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| rail question https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2393 |
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| Author: | Alan [ Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | rail question |
What is the source and cause of that loud metal-on-metal squeaking sound as a rail car rolls by? adofmsu@aol.com |
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| Author: | Jim Lundquist [ Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: rail question |
the inside of the flange of the outside wheel in a curve rubbing against the inside of the outside ball of the rail! They try to add oil it tight spots. JimLundquist55@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: rail question |
> the inside of the flange of the outside > wheel in a curve rubbing against the inside > of the outside ball of the rail! They try to > add oil it tight spots. Also, when a wheel set goes around a curve one of the wheels has to slide a bit. The two wheels turn at the same rate because they are connected by the solid axle. But, the distance traveled is different -- the outer rail through the curve than the inner rail. Sometimes it is not oil but grease that gets placed on rails. It goes on the inside edge of the rail head -- NEVER on top. Brian Norden bnorden49@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Jim Lundquist [ Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | why not have independent |
axles to stop the inside rail from slipping along? JimLundquist55@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Just think |
about how much more complicated that would be. Each wheel on a separate axle that would have to be supported on each end, etc. bnorden49@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Alan [ Sat Dec 15, 2001 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: why arent there any metal shavings? |
why arent there any metal shavings left on the ground? adofmsu@aol.com |
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| Author: | John McNamara [ Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: rail question |
> Also, when a wheel set goes around a curve > one of the wheels has to slide a bit. The > two wheels turn at the same rate because > they are connected by the solid axle. But, > the distance traveled is different -- the > outer rail through the curve than the inner > rail. > Sometimes it is not oil but grease that gets > placed on rails. It goes on the inside edge > of the rail head -- NEVER on top. > Brian Norden The "sliding" is minimized, however, because railroad wheels are tapered, with the diameter near the flange somewhat larger than the diameter further away from the flange. There is some lateral movement as the wheelset goes around a curve. On a curve, the outside wheel contacts the rail at a point of larger wheel diameter than where the inside wheel contacts the rail. The outside and inside wheels rotate at the same rate, but the outside one covers more distance because of the larger diameter. I presume I'm "preaching to the choir" about this, but I just thought I would mention it. -John mcnamara@world.std.com |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: rail question |
> The "sliding" is minimized, > however, because railroad wheels are > tapered, with the diameter near the flange > somewhat larger than the diameter further > away from the flange. There is some lateral > movement as the wheelset goes around a > curve. On a curve, the outside wheel > contacts the rail at a point of larger wheel > diameter than where the inside wheel > contacts the rail. The outside and inside > wheels rotate at the same rate, but the > outside one covers more distance because of > the larger diameter. I presume I'm > "preaching to the choir" about > this, but I just thought I would mention it. I guess I had a bit of a senoir moment. Yes, the taper of the wheel tread does help. But the combination of taper, etc may not match and there will be wear (to rail or wheel or both) particularly on sharp curves. After the wheel moves all the way to the flange (biggest tread diameter) then you can get contact between the flange and the inside of the rail. Brian Norden bnorden49@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: why arent there any metal shavings? |
> why arent there any metal shavings left on > the ground? I've seen them, particularly through a switch. But they are fine. bnorden49@earthlink.net |
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| Author: | Pete [ Sun Dec 16, 2001 2:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: why not have independent |
> axles to stop the inside rail from slipping > along? This has been tried. The tender from the WP's "GS-4" which is at Portola has this type of wheel and axle combination (wheels can rotate independently of each other on the axle). Axles with wheels not "permanenlty attached" are now "Remove on Sight" items, except for the talgo. This is what held up the tender's movement to Portola from Stockton for so long many years ago. |
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| Author: | Michael Brown (TVRM) [ Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: rail question |
This is particularly noticeable on rusty rails as the wheel "pop" loose then slide with much fanfare (noise), but they will pop on well used rail in sharp curves as well. > I guess I had a bit of a senoir moment. Yes, > the taper of the wheel tread does help. But > the combination of taper, etc may not match > and there will be wear (to rail or wheel or > both) particularly on sharp curves. After > the wheel moves all the way to the flange > (biggest tread diameter) then you can get > contact between the flange and the inside of > the rail. > Brian Norden Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum newriver400@cs.com |
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| Author: | Chris Coleman [ Tue Dec 18, 2001 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: rail question |
Some time ago I put together a document on the action of railroad wheels on rail. I am not a rail professional nor do I have experience maintaining wheels or rail (nor am I sure all the concepts are correctly explained) but it might be of some use to railroad wheel laymen. http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/whel_faq.html Railroad Wheel FAQ ebtrr@spikesys.com |
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| Author: | Tom Shreve [ Fri Dec 21, 2001 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: why arent there any metal shavings? |
> I've seen them, particularly through a > switch. But they are fine. And I've seen long "splinters" where the metal of the ball of the rail has been rolled under the head and split off. Mechanical rail flange lubricators are used on the Santa Cruz, Big Trees and Pacific in the San Lorenzo Canyon. On the Roaring Camp & Big Trees we use a small stream of water from the engine in front of the first wheel as a flange lubricant. It works well, is controllable from the cab, doesn't build up over time and is "eco-friendly"(water evaporates). ironbartom@aol.com |
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