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More PRR A5s
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24145		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bobyar2001 [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  More PRR A5s
The A5 photo from a while back seemed to draw a lot of interest, so I'll post these even though they are long gone:

643 at Atlantic City, 6/26/48:

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi? ... prr643.jpg

610 at Philadelphia, 2/41:

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi? ... prr610.jpg

560 at Philadelphia, 12/19/37:

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi? ... prr560.jpg

They are cute little machines. Question - were they commonly used on the Delaware Avenue dockside trackage in Philadelphia that CP operates now?
Author:  Dave Lewandoski [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
I wouldn't mind having one myself. thanks for sharing. love all the pics, especially the Pennsy ones!
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
I have a friend who was considering building one in his yard, from plywood. Expensive, yes; pointless, yes; but wouldn't it make an interesting exhibit piece?
Author:  Les Beckman [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
bobyar2001 wrote:
The A5 photo from a while back seemed to draw a lot of interest, so I'll post these even though they are long gone:

643 at Atlantic City, 6/26/48:

http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi? ... prr643.jpg


Interesting that this A5 was assigned number 643 by the Pennsy. The only currently operable Pennsylvania Railroad steamer is number 643, but she is a B-4a class 0-6-0 operated by the Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Association. THAT number 643 was built by PRR's Altoona Shops in 1901 and (according to J. David Conrad's published info) was later sold to the Central Iron & Steel Company in Harrisburg, PA. David states in his STEAM LOCOMOTIVE DIRECTORY OF NORTH AMERICA that the date of the sale to CI&SC is unknown. But we know it must have occurred BEFORE the date that A5 #643 was built, since the B-4a's leaving the Pennsy roster made that particular number available.

Les
Author:  John Bohon [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
As best as I remember most of the A-5 switchers were built in 1916 and 1917. The existance of A-5 number 643 lead to the theory that B-4a 643 was probably off the PRR roster by that time. A few A-5's were built in the mid twenties so that would seem to be the latest time B-4a 643 could have been on the roster. That is, of course, unless there was a renumbering we knew nothing about. When it comes to PRR engine numbers, who knows?

John Bohon
Author:  Les Beckman [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
John Bohon wrote:
As best as I remember most of the A-5 switchers were built in 1916 and 1917. The existance of A-5 number 643 lead to the theory that B-4a 643 was probably off the PRR roster by that time. A few A-5's were built in the mid twenties so that would seem to be the latest time B-4a 643 could have been on the roster. That is, of course, unless there was a renumbering we knew nothing about. When it comes to PRR engine numbers, who knows?

John Bohon


Hey John, someone knows! I seem to recall that there was a book published about PRR locomotive numbers. It listed each number, and then which particular engines were assigned to that particular number. At least I THINK there was such a book. Maybe someone can confirm it. If so, maybe they could look up the listings for the number 643.

Les
Author:  Ron Muldowney [ Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
John and Les, you are most correct in your assumption. I have gone through two copies of KEYSTONE STEAM & ELECTRIC by William Edson. It gives PRR construction numbers and railroad numbers. I have been using these for research since they came out in 1974! Here is the info you remembered:

PRR 643 - assigned to the following - (G), H1, B4a, and finally A5s.

Hope that helps!!

Ron Muldowney
Author:  Jim Robinson [ Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
Les Beckman wrote:

THAT number 643 was built by PRR's Altoona Shops in 1901 and (according to J. David Conrad's published info) was later sold to the Central Iron & Steel Company in Harrisburg, PA. David states in his STEAM LOCOMOTIVE DIRECTORY OF NORTH AMERICA that the date of the sale to CI&SC is unknown.



According to information that the WGHSEA currently has, the date of 643's sale to the Central Iron & Steel Co. is not unknown. The sale took place in March 1917 (she became CI&S #5). The PRR removed 643 from active service in January 1917. At that time she was carried on the books as PRR 0643. The "0" apparently indicating she was removed from active service and slated for disposition. This allowed the above mentioned A5 to take her number slot.

Regards,
Jim Robinson
Author:  JimBoylan [ Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
bobyar2001 wrote:
were they commonly used on the Delaware Avenue dockside trackage in Philadelphia that CP operates now?
Yes, and also on Washington Ave.
Author:  John Bohon [ Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
Do you have a build date for A-5 number 643? That would establish an off the roster date for the B-4a.

One correction to my earlier post. When the off the roster theory first was established as 1917 we did not know the original number of the 643. That revalation came a couple of years later. Knowing when the A-5 was built would help narrow down the date even more.

Thanks.

John Bohon
Author:  prr643 [ Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
Another interesting thing is I've seen pictures of yet another PRR 643, this one an MP54. I would think the MP54 was built before the A5 was off the roster, so my question is did PRR allow commuter cars to have the same numbers as existing locomotives, or did this car get renumbered after A5 643 was off the roster? My guess would be the later, but it is only a guess.

There is a copy of one of the pictures at http://community.webshots.com/album/561098268WwqwOm?vhost=community

Original photo credit is at the bottom of the photo. I do not have contact info for this person, so I hope they do not mind I reposted it.

Anyway, I find it interesting.
Author:  JimBoylan [ Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
prr643 wrote:
did PRR allow commuter cars to have the same numbers as existing locomotives?
Steam yes; electric, no. MU trailers started at 1, so did steam locos. When the Great Northern locos were bought in 1957, the ones put in service were numbered 1 through 7. MU trailer 1 became 901, trailer 8 was not renumbered.
Author:  prr643 [ Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
hmm, interesting.

There is nothing that surprises me about the PRR when it comes to numbering.
Author:  rbarcus [ Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
Judging from the responses, there are quite a few Pennsy steam fans! The A5s are quite interesting little locomotives.
Author:  John Bohon [ Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More PRR A5s
Actually I am not a PRR fan and never have been. I did, however, spend a lot of time with the B-4a at Williams Grove and like the little engine and their operation. I know little about PRR and their practices and what I do know is what I learned from the Cumberland Valley branch and my PRR fan friends. Frankly the standard railroad of the world did so many nonstandard things they baffle me a little.

Those little A-5 class engines are among the few PRR locomotives I do like. The fact that one bears the number 643 and may have been a direct replacement for the older 643 is quite interesting. I have been searching for some clue that may indeed be the case for years. How many locomotives were replaced one for one with a locomotive carring the same number and basically designed to do the same job?

John Bohon
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