Disregarding all else on the Alco PA project, let me beg the question: IS the Alco 16-244 that was offered on eBay REALLY that scarce?

In the immediate aftermath of learning about that engine on eBay, I sent some e-mails and instant-messages to a couple people that I thought deserved to know--a couple with indirect connections to the PA restoration project, and other Alco-sympathetic people.

The response I got amounted to a big "yeah--so what?" I might as well have offered an EMD 567 block. Or an AMC Gremlin.

I gather from this that: 1) there are more 16-244's about in running condition; 2) the people in question know something about this particular engine that makes it unfit for use (completely worn out or something); 3) Nobody actually has a use for said engine, or they don't care to use it in a proper way; or 4) Alco 16-244's are such dreadful engines that a scrapped engine would be worth more than a working one, or some such nonsense. Or a combination of these factors.

So: are the parties that should care about a 16-244 simply bullheaded, or do they know something we don't? Just curious, that's all........ any soapbox volunteers?

lner4472@bcpl.net

> Disregarding all else on the Alco PA
> project, let me beg the question: IS the
> Alco 16-244 that was offered on eBay REALLY
> that scarce?

ADM4:

Yes, the 16-244 really is scarce. I suspect this one is the only one in North America, and there may be three others-- in the three South American PAs, which are in museums in Brazil. It is unfortunate that this rare find elicited so little interest from those you contacted. I can understand Mr. Mc Cormick's plan to rebuild his locomotive his own way; he is not a museum.

While the Alco 244 has its design "quirks", if properly maintained, it is a strong, reliable diesel engine. 567s are known to break from time to time, too.

It seemed like the proper way to restore the Smithsonian PA, in keeping with the restoration standards their Garber Facility has worked to, was to put a 16-244 in it , especially if it was going to represent a first-generation AT&SF locomotive (whether or not it was to operate-- and perhaps especially if it was NOT to operate!). If it is to be restored as a D&H PA-4, then a 12-251 would be appropriate.

I now don my flak vest and steel helmet.

hpincus@mindspring.com

What happened to the prime mover on ebay? Did it sell?

rickrailrd@aol.com

From what I was told, this is likely the last 16-244 in North America. Of the three PAs that went to South America, only one has a prime mover still in it, and it's a 16-244. One of the S. American PA's is a car body only,including missing its trucks. This carbody is privately owned.

Smokebox

> From what I was told, this is likely the
> last 16-244 in North America.

About 12 years ago Philadelphia Gear Co. in King of Prussia, PA had a 16-244 used for testing of large gearboxes. People at the plant said it was from a LV PA. Don't know what ever became of this one but you just don't know for sure what is in some industrial plants.


arjay3@ix.netcom.com

Yeah, I know...the self-styled "King of the PA"
has got his eye on that one, too...

> From what I was told, this is likely the
> last 16-244 in North America. Of the three
> PAs that went to South America, only one has
> a prime mover still in it, and it's a
> 16-244. One of the S. American PA's is a car
> body only,including missing its trucks. This
> carbody is privately owned.

> Smokebox


74471.3045@compuserve.com

> Yeah, I know...the self-styled "King of
> the PA"
> has got his eye on that one, too...

Actually, I'd have to say you're wrong.

Why do you think "The King" would spend ten+ years "negotiating" (remember, no one else was succesfull) for the prize being of one of two PA hulks? Could it be that the S. American PA's are junk and the cost in shipping alone would make anyone keel over? Hmmm.

Smokebox

Oops...bad turn of a phrase. I said "self-styled"
when the idea I was trying to impart was exactly the opposite- "The King of the PA's" was meant with more than a little irony. In another words, the "railfan media" are the ones that "crowned" him.

As I said before (and I've never spoken to through any medium ), I hope he is able to finish the project with his bankbook, health and SANITY all intact. I'm not talking out of my @#$ here, I have been there...

And, BTW, I have a letter in my possession that tells the story of another party who some years previously attempted to make the "rescue." This account was confirmed by a third party as being a truthful account.

The long and the short of it was: a group of folks had apparently made a deal with an official of theFdelP to acquire all four units. The details were never shared with me-but I suspect back then, things in Mexico were far more "freewheeling" back then. Unfortunately, a "railfan columnist" for a regional newmagazine revealed the existence of the deal before the cash changed hands-and the deal died.

Yeah, I wasn't there...but I remember seeing the news article about the return of the units to the states when it was published. So, as far as I know
the events depicted in the letter are true. Who knows the truth about much of these goings on?

> Actually, I'd have to say you're wrong.

> Why do you think "The King" would
> spend ten+ years "negotiating"
> (remember, no one else was succesfull) for
> the prize being of one of two PA hulks?
> Could it be that the S. American PA's are
> junk and the cost in shipping alone would
> make anyone keel over? Hmmm.

> Smokebox


74471.3045@compuserve.com