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GTP Roundhouse Preservation
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Author:  Kev [ Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  GTP Roundhouse Preservation
I have had burps posted in the roundhouse post but now this is starting to greatly grow with interest so I thought it might be better to have it's own thread.

The 1908 Grand Trunk Pacific Roundhouse located in Biggar, Saskatchewan, Canada is at another mile point of it's existence. The building that was saved from demolition back in 1974 now faces the same fate due to a clause that CN is currently upholding to the current owner of the building and leaser of the land.

Ironically it would be financially in the best interests of the owner to de-construct the building and salvage the beams but there is a wish to give back to the community and save a very important piece of history. Legal fees have been in the tens of thousands to delay while the community organization and government try to access all options available but the lease is up in the beginning of 2009 and if nothing can be secured, that forces de-construction this coming summer of 2008.


It has been tabled in the House of Commons by the Hon. Carol Skelton and is seeking support in the hopes to make it a National Historic Point of Interest. The plans (That I have heard of) is to complete a phase restoration and a full Railway Museum.

http://www.carolskelton.ca/Releases2007/20071024a.htm

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoe ... dd69a14036

If you care to support the cause then please sent an email to biggarmuseum@sasktel.net or the office of the Hon. Carol Skelton saskatoon1@carolskelton.ca. More support that can be gained for the project will influence the direction it shall proceed. This can be a win-win situation for all, if you are interested is stepping up to show your support that this is a viable direction of interest, all they need would be a name or title, location and why you would like to see it preserved.*

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In addition, CBC has conducted a radio interview with Tom and the TV end of CBC was inquiring as well as CTV. There is also going to be an article published in the Heritage Canada Foundation magazine. IT has gained interest from numerous educational facilities and starting to peak the interest of research/preservation teams/groups.

It sounds like funds have been conditionally secured if the finalization of transfer is approved by CN as well as rolling stock and additional contents including some of the original equiptment.

Thank you Bob for your interest and support was well.
Author:  Kev [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
I have just been informed of a snag, the town counsel met and there seems to be a split. Half see the building as being just an old building and are having a difficult time understanding the difference between Historic and Heritage.

I'm still trying to understand the full encompass of the preservation society and the design of the foundation that can be greatly influenced by a few councilpersons since the incorporation of the foundation has not been completed as of yet.

This means that they are not going to move on anything until this matter is clear to them. Unfortunately if there is no movement by the end of December, the demolition application would have to be submitted (Due to regulative time lines, it must be received 6 months prior to activities. There is still time for anything to happen in between and can be withdrawn at any time)

So, how many times must one bash up against a wall before progress is made? Funny how there was support while it was a dream but now that most issues have been secured, there are these unexpected swings of support like some exterior forces are at play not wanting this to occur.
Author:  Mr. Ed [ Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
Never underestimate the power of the politician. When we were fighting Wawa for the old PRR rail yard, our trust secretary had given the council's e-mail address for supporters to send their letters of support. Funny how none (over 1,000) showed up at the meeting. They had been conveniently deleted. And sadly you will not be able to garner enough support from people to hold a recall of these career politicians. And when all else fails, they will exercise eminent domain and take the building. Sad but true.

Good luck!

Later!
Mr. Ed
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
Okay, slight bit of cynicism here.

Biggar has an approximate population of 2,000, according to Wikipedia. Saskatoon, with 200,000 people, is about 60 miles away. Total population of the whole province which is bigger than North and South Dakota combined, about 990,000--nearly 380K in Regina and Saskatoon alone.

This isn't quite Orbisonia or East Ely, but the "middle of nowhere" problems are probably the same. The building looks like a prime preservation candidate, but then what? Even if you moved everything from the small rail museums at Moose Jaw and Saskatoon, you might fill up less than half the roundhouse.

Perhaps the best move would be for a mixed-use function like Toronto's oft-derided John Street Roundhouse--maybe Biggar could put a library in part of the building? Rail museum in a couple stalls?
Author:  Kev [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Okay, slight bit of cynicism here.

Biggar has an approximate population of 2,000, according to Wikipedia. Saskatoon, with 200,000 people, is about 60 miles away. Total population of the whole province which is bigger than North and South Dakota combined, about 990,000--nearly 380K in Regina and Saskatoon alone.

This isn't quite Orbisonia or East Ely, but the "middle of nowhere" problems are probably the same. The building looks like a prime preservation candidate, but then what? Even if you moved everything from the small rail museums at Moose Jaw and Saskatoon, you might fill up less than half the roundhouse.

Perhaps the best move would be for a mixed-use function like Toronto's oft-derided John Street Roundhouse--maybe Biggar could put a library in part of the building? Rail museum in a couple stalls?


Truthfully I wouldn't follow Wikipedia as law and many of those numbers are out but for general purposes I do get your point and you make a lot of valid ones.

I would like to dispel the assumption of moving stock from the other rail museums for if you actually seen what the contents are you would understand that this was not one of the considerations (There is actually a lot more classic stock in the prairies than most know about and much is just sitting out in the elements or being destroyed and scrapped.) There have also been interests and requests from British Columbia to Manitoba offering restored rolling stock once the facility is secured so it can be under a roof. This does not mean that anything would be rejected but there is less eagerness to place just anything inside.

The building would have to under go phase restoration so it couldn’t handle full volume at once. It must also, in time, become financially regenerative and this was a major factor when creating the foundation to govern the operations.

The thought of a multi-use facility was initially planned but to acquire the large grants to properly revive the structure, the building would have to be solely committed for the museum without any molestation. Considerations of literally building shells inside to house secondary businesses might meet the criteria but this has to be confirmed. When inviting third party accommodations, there are other expenses that would have to be considered such as insurance and liability. There are also the tunnels that tie the building to the town which have yet been fully explored.

The issue of it being in the boonies is true but without its location the building would have been long gone and not in the shape it currently is in. As indicated with the Toronto’s John Street Roundhouse, you must also be aware of the issues and problems with the floor and foundation after the construction of the Sky Dome and because of it’s location there is not the same issues that is facing the E&N Roundhouse in Victoria B.C.

Yes, it is a long shot but isn’t that what this is all about? Its location hasn’t hampered the dozens of people who would visit the building each year when it was closed off to the public and in use for other purposes. But if there is no legitimate support or interest and we must place all that is old aside or to discard then so be it. The fate is simple, time is running out and this summer it will either be a museum or a memory.

At the end of the day I would like to know that I have tried everything within my means to save it and when, in the near future the question will come up “Who was responsible to let a gem as this slip through our fingers?” I sure in the heck know it wasn’t me.


I do want to thank all that already have posted for their input for it does help in seeing alternative views for evaluation. When the next major issue arises, I will surely inform all of you.
Author:  Howard P. [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
Well, it seems to me that a rather well-done Canadian railway museum is also in the "middle of nowhere"-- the Canadian Museum of Railway Travel at Cranbrook, BC. So, perhaps that "problem" is not what urban Easterners think it is....

Howard P.
Author:  Kev [ Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
HI,

Thought I would give an update.

As usual, things are going as fast as molasses in January but they are still going. I would like to thank Bob Y. again for his help and input as well as the comments above.

We are now at the point of assistance from the federal government but the degree of aid will be dictated by the relevance of history the building maintains as to it's surroundings. Also the importance of such structures elsewhere and the loss when they are removed.

Currently we have a considerable volume of rolling stock being offered to be placed under the roof, to the point that we might have to look at being selective when and if this becomes finalized (Since this will have to be a phased project). We also have significant funding to initiate the project and a market report completed to the viability of operations and area beneficial run off. The government just needs to classify the facility.

Unfortunately, even with their current interest in history restoration, they have more complexing issues on the table. As this was indicated to us from our MP, she also requested if we could accumulate input from individuals such as yourselves who have a great deal of experience in this matter or preservation.

There was something else that was interesting. We found a considerable difference in insurance cost if we did not replace the turntable and just had a display model that people could walk around (Place directly on the ground and was not functional. This would mean the filling of the pit but not the removal). This is a consideration for the initial project and then look at other options for the future.

We would be greatly appreciated if anyone willing to comment on this project could express their view along with an experience time line and general location. If your do not want to post then please PM me.

Currently the building is in private ownership and CNR owns the land. The lease has been extended for 5 years but it is soon to be exhausted. The lease can no longer be extended due to the financial drain, the means that the funding can be accessed will not allow reimbursement to the present owners. The lease also is very specific and it's terms would have to renegotiate. The organization will not assume the building until they can secure the land and CN has no problem with it being leased as long as their long list of conditions are met (This list is the bases of all concerns). The federal government will be reviewing the designation of the facility to historic standing (Not heritage) which will protect enough interest to initiate the project. This is what we are seeking, not financial support from the government.


I thank all of you for your interest and support in this matter and applaud all your current efforts and en devours.
Author:  Kev [ Fri May 02, 2008 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GTP Roundhouse Preservation
Update for May 2008

The building is near the end of it's battle. There is now at least 2 Canadian MPs assisting in preserving the building as well as Heritage Canada and I have been told more are joining the fight. There also has been a letter sent from the Government of Canada inquiring to CNR an explanation of their stand on this matter.

We have around 2 more months to pull this off or it might be faced with being torn down due to enormous financial constrains.

I guess the answer will be soon on what direction this takes.

PS Heritage Canada has placed it on the top 10 endangered list and it's starting to make a come back in the media on a global scale.
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