I am going to be involved with restoring a Milwaukee Road bay window rib side caboose that will involve completely stripping down and sand blasting the interior and exterior. I am trying to figure out what we want to do with the exterior paint. I am not an expert at painting. I am trying to figure out what we are looking at for needed materials and cost. What paint would give the most durable finish that will last a long time sitting outside in the weather? I have heard some people talking about using a hardener rather than clear coat. What would be the best way to go? Use one or both? I am looking for something that will help keep the paint from fading and oxidizing in the weather.

What would be the best procedure to do the lettering? I have seen different projects where the color for the lettering was applied to the area. Then decals were applied for the lettering and the main color was applied over that. The decals were then removed. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for any information.

Ed

I should state that this is a steel caboose rather than a wooden one.

Ed

I've used vinyl decals for stencils on a few historic military vehicle and ariracft projects over the years and have loved working with it. My own WW2 Jeep has all the markings on the bumpers and hood using them and they still look great 4 years after I put them on.
Any good sign shop can help you out with this, just have exact specs for what you have in mind. Just find someone know knows exactly what they're doing, that's all.

I think I would tend to go with Imron for the paint as it has a proven record in the rail industry. You just have to be SURE to follow the handling and spraying instructions. I would at least consider adhesive backed paper masks for the lettering if you can find a good stencil cutter. Andy

Depends a bit on what scheme you are wanting to use. What era for the letterring?

The railroad probably sprayed on the lettering, sometimes using fairly elaborate masks and stencils. For a high class job projecting the railroad's image on a caboose, any obvious bars or gaps from the masks might have been touched up by hand, at least before the hard times set in on the MILW. Sheet metal masks with soldered raised wires to hold the parts together obviated many of these defects. The railroads also used simpler cardstock stencils with glued on strings to hold the parts in alignment. The latter did not hold up well with many uses or if stored between uses for much time.

Registration of multi colored schemes presented an additional problem. For this reason, many heralds or logos were printed or screened on a separate plate or medallion to be applied to the car when otherwise complete.

If numbering with the "0" prefix, the lettering was simpler, and no MILW multicolor herald was used. I think with the "99" prefix there was the herald below the bay window. And the heralds themselves had a series of differing border treatments as well as the lettering and content of the red field.

Try to research the old records as reflectorized material was often used in whole or in part on many of the more modern schemes. This complicates the choices, but can mostly still be accomplished, especially if exact color can be accepted if slightly compromised.

Many in preservation have resorted to using stick on vinyl 'decals' for lettering to avoid the expense and not having the skill level to hand paint the decorations. But if you can find an old fashioned sign painter in your area, AND supply him with accurate artwork, it might be the most authentic approach in terms of method and results.

The method you suggest of spraying the base color, adding masks and then the top coats, was certainly used by railroads for things like passenger equipment and perhaps some locomotives, say, circa 1960 and newer. One advantage would be the ability to achieve authentic colors like the maroon on the MILW caboose.

With vinyl stick ons, there are a limited number of stock colors for the film. Although you could have something close in color and have the film overprinted with inks. But that may not be as durable in the outdoors. They use vinyl almost exclusively now for things ranging from truck bodies to police cars. Several grades and thicknesses of the stock are made, but most have an advertised life cycle of maybe 5-8 years. Not to say there are not examples of them lasting longer, but maybe with the edges starting to peel or curl, or the printed ink colors fading or eroding. Surface prep and application instructions must be followed carefully for maximum life.

I expect some of the vinyl appliques are for final surface mount only and would not be used before a top coat or clear coat. They are making progress in clear coat chemistry but you really need something UV resistant. Using an epoxy clear coat is NOT recommended since even the manufacturers admit it will turn yellow in a short time.

Bob Kutella

I'm no expert at painting either. You may find the search feature on this forum to be useful, as the topic comes up from time to time.

We have painted a coach with a Sherwin-Williams product called Acrolon. It was professionally applied over a primer tinted the same color. So far, so good, but it hasn't been on long enough for me to judge durability.

Alan Maples

I've done a lot of them in a lot of ways. They all work, more or less, depending on many variables, better or worse. One constant I have found is the importance of surface prep. Another is to spend the money on the highest quality of whichever flavor of paint you select - it takes as much trouble to put on good stuff as bad. Compatable primers and cover coats will help prevent failure of adhesion.

Historic authenticity isn't compatable with durability, good modern paints last much longer than old recipes except for lead based house paints. Historic application methods don't necessarily provide the super smooth, glossy finish most people like to see either. Brushes were used a lot in non-production paint shop facilities, but after the '30's unlikely in mainline paint shops.

So, don't sweat it - but find some painting contractors that paint big stationary steel industrial things in your area and ask them what works best.

dave

First off, thank everybody for the responses and information.

Our plan is to paint the caboose back to its as built 1939 paint scheme. This would be in the "0" prefix. So the lettering is rather simple.

We are not necessarily looking for a glossy finish. We just do not want it to start chalking after a couple of years.

Ed

Someone mentioned vinyl lettering. Search for a previous thread on that in this forum.

One of the things we should consider when making paint and lettering choices is how the car is going to weather, and as it weathers, will it still look like a railroad car, or just plain decrepit. Vinyl lettering is a rather recent invention (ca. 1975, maybe?) so would not have been used in 1939. Vinyl lettering is basically designed for automotive use, where the average life span only needs to be five to seven years, and that’s about all the life you can expect to get out of it; five years for the standard grade, seven for the “heavy duty”. Then it starts to peel, and looks like hell. Heck, in the world of railway car restoration, seven years feels like you’ve just finished cleaning the brushes, and is certainly NOT the point where you want to be faced with doing the job over again.

The same goes for using hardware store rattle cans for metallic colors. I’ve seen gold lettering that simply washed away in five years.

The best paint is best, obviously, but what mostly makes it best is gloss retention. I’ve seen coaches painted with Ditzler automotive enamel that held their gloss for fifteen years, while the identical car painted with good ol’ Rustoleum lost its gloss in three. But thirty years later, one doesn’t look any worse than the other; they both look like railroad cars nearing time for a repaint.

The most important thing is surface prep. Remove flaking and alligatored paint, this paint is at the end of its life and will continue to come off under the new coat. Beat the rust out of the lap seams, slide a rust converting primer as far into the seam as possible, then caulk the seam. There is nothing worse than bleeding rust streaking down the new paint job.

After the prep work is done, use the best paint system you can afford. A catalyzed coating system like Imron is best, the catalyzed automotive systems are good, non catalyzed materials made for body shop use will hold their gloss longer than brushable alkyd enamels, but anything applied over good surface prep can be recoated with a minimum of work, at least compared to beating the rust out of the seams again.

Be sure to trace any existing lettering found when doing the body prep. DO NOT assume that you can just pull up a computer font to have lettering cut; very little railroad lettering was standard printers fonts, and almost all was considerably more extended. Using off the shelf computer fonts is guaranteed to look funny.

Lettering can be hand painted, using a sign painter’s paint like One-Shot. It will lose its gloss after several years, but I’ve never seen a good job weather away. All it takes is a full outline penciled on the car and a lot of skill and patience. You could also hire a sign painter to do the lettering, but you’ve got to give him the stencil to lay it out, otherwise he’ll default to some circus font he’s used to doing freehand.

Vinyl sign cutters can work from graphics as well as computer fonts; scan your tracings, or even photos, into a drawing program like Adobe Illustrator, or Coral Draw and clean it up. Easiest is often to find a standard font that is close, put it on a different layer than your scanned tracing / photo, convert the characters to graphics and tweak them to look like the tracing. This keeps the curves smooth and the stroke widths consistent, and helps restore missing portions of the letterforms with something close to original.

Instead of cutting vinyl letters, have a vinyl stencil cut. The material works the same, but is meant for temporary adhesion. Apply the stencil, razor out the bars, mask the surrounding area, and spray away. Now, you’ll have lettering that won’t start to peel in five to seven years.

By the way, the original Milwaukee Road lettering wasn’t gold decals, was it? There is an easy way to replicate that, also.