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| Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24426 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
....but pretty darned close! Quote: 2 die in crash with 'Santa Express' train
Jim Lynch / The Detroit News ISABELLA TOWNSHIP -- Two Mt. Pleasant residents died in a car crash Saturday when the vehicle they were in struck a passenger train carrying children to meet "Santa Claus." Driver Jennifer Mae VanBuskirk, 31, and Allen John Pego, 31, died at the scene after the car they were in struck the rear portion of the train's engine about three miles outside of Mt. Pleasant. A third passenger, Msquabnah Pego, 28, was at Hurley Medical Center in Flint Saturday afternoon in stable condition awaiting surgery. All three are Mt. Pleasant residents. None of the 67 train passengers were injured in the crash. The Santa Express train takes children and adults from Mountain Town Station in Mt. Pleasant 16 miles north to Clare to meet and ride back with Santa Claus. The train was headed north at 2:12 p.m. when the collision took place where the tracks cross East Baseline Road. Isabella County Sheriff Leo Mioduszewski said there are signs alerting drivers to the crossing, but no flashing lights or gates to prevent passage. More in the story waiting in the "Flimsies" queue, or go to: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... 90348/1361 |
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| Author: | p51 [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
Funny how you never hear of anyone being sued in cases like this once it's discovered it's not a "for profit freight railroad"? |
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| Author: | HuckleBerry Foamer [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
It is amazing how many people do not realize that stop signs mean STOP. Last weekend we came within probably a foot or so of hitting a Buick who flew right through a crossing in Owosso without even looking. That was a VERY close call. The day before, a young woman and her boyfriend were watching us come across M-21 in the chase diesel, waving, etc. at the very last minute, the young woman decided she wanted to cross. So she ran across the crossing. I would say we were less than 15 feet away. All it would have taken was one slip, and she would have been a goner. I dont know if its just something in the water or what, but people act like idiots, and dont think with common sense. |
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| Author: | ray dewley [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
I've personally seen (from operating) cars sit on a grade crossing when they see a headlight coming, instead of just rolling across... |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
Both stories seem to place the blame for the incident on the car rather than the driver. Do journalists reckon cars decide where they are going to go without being purposely aimed there? Barring mechanical difficulties with brakes and steering, of course........ dave |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
"Funny how you never hear of anyone being sued in cases like this once it's discovered it's not a "for profit freight railroad"? I seem to recall a case at Mid-Continent Railway Museum involving a motorcylist running right into the side of a train occupying a grade crossing; I was told there was indeed a lwasuit and a payment made by MCRM and/or it's insurer. Just because we're not the BNSF or UP doesn't mean the lawsuits won't happen. "Those trains they have must be worth something, eh?" Howard P. Close Call Crossing, CT |
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| Author: | Andy J [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
Howard P. wrote: "Funny how you never hear of anyone being sued in cases like this once it's discovered it's not a "for profit freight railroad"?
I seem to recall a case at Mid-Continent Railway Museum involving a motorcylist running right into the side of a train occupying a grade crossing; I was told there was indeed a lwasuit and a payment made by MCRM and/or it's insurer. Just because we're not the BNSF or UP doesn't mean the lawsuits won't happen. "Those trains they have must be worth something, eh?" Howard P. Close Call Crossing, CT That is the fault of insurance companies wanting "to just make it go away"...They will offer a smaller payout to idiots, just to keep from going to court and fighting the lawsuit, their view is even if we win, we will pay out huge $$$ in fees and such.... Now most everyone is in it, for the "settlement". They, the insurance companies created this problem, and naturally, we the folks, will be paying because of it. |
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| Author: | John Risley [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
As far as the media goes, I feel they are as much of the problem as the idiots themselves. You look at almost any tradgity and the focus is on what gun, drug, moving train {or parked} is responsiable for the act, rather than an act of stupidity or violence. We are all victims if you buy into the stories they produce. Notice I don't use the word report. It is quite subliminal, but the effect has created a society of victims. It is rarely the perpatrators fault that he or she chooses to commit a crime or someone defies common sense with a screw driver, cup of coffee, car or other lethal weapon. Yes the insurance companies and court systems help too, and we are the ones that pay the price. To me the kicker is when JohnQ pubic who lives a life that threatens no one, is a responseable citizen, puts a garage two feet too close to his lot line is dragged into court and penalized for his "crime". Sorry to rant on so, but this subject effects all of us, in and away from railroading, professionally or hobbiest alike. Responsable news reporting is about as rare as common sense. I know I shouldn't even post this but other people rant and it is my turn. Cheers, John. |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
Natural selection... |
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| Author: | Alan Maples [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
While we within the rypn audience are naturally inclined to see an accident like this from the railroad perspective, we should remember that, regardless of cause, a human tragedy has occurred. How well prepared is your museum/tourist railroad to deal with a situation like this? Do you have a plan for contacting emergency responders? For addressing the needs of distraught crew members, customers, bystanders? Have you addressed who, how, and when to speak to the media? Do you have an established protocol for gathering data, interviewing witnesses, managing claims and legal issues? Do key officers or managers have a uniform understanding of how to handle major incidents?Alan Maples |
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| Author: | Dave [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
It doesn't help, John, to talk to the media. A couple years ago, a reporter for the Savannah Morning News wrote an article about a person who drove his car into the side of a train stopped in a crossing with clear vision from the road and in daylight. The perpetrator was referred to as the victim. I called the reporter and encouraged him to reconsider - he refused, based on his premise that anybody who was dead was a victim whether by their own actions or not, and that calling attention to the responsible party would violate the customary respect for the dearly dumbly departed and have no impact on preventing more similar accidents - after all, nobody else would ever do anything so obviously mindless. Another similar incident happened within the week. Coverage the same. dave |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
There are far too many questions left open to say whether or not the railroad bears any responsibility in this incident. However, there are plenty of cases where the railroads were determined to have contributed to the incident via negligence to properly maintain the crossing. Did the crossing have sufficient line of sight on either side, clear of vegetation or other obstructions? Was the crossing properly marked (per Uniform Traffic Control Device standards)? As for preparation, you have to assume the worst (that you will be sued following an incident). It's no laughing matter, even the best of our organizations would be hard pressed to survive more than one good lawsuit. "That is the fault of insurance companies wanting "to just make it go away"...They will offer a smaller payout to idiots, just to keep from going to court and fighting the lawsuit, their view is even if we win, we will pay out huge $$$ in fees and such.... " No, it's not necessecarily the fault of the insurers-it's part of the cost of doing business in a capitalist economy. We make decisions based on a cost-benefit analysis and sometimes we make the wrong decision. For a small railroad, that choice might be between doing work on a car and clearing the area around the boarding station or a railroad crossing of weeds and debris or the costs associatied with using paid labor. Would you rathar pay out a little money to settle, or risk unknown damages being awarded in a trial? Remember that if you go to a trial, it will most likely be a jury trial and who do you think will likely come out the better in a case where the railroad might bear partial responsibility-the innocent motorist or the big, bad railroad? |
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| Author: | co614 [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
A loco. engineers worst nightmare is having a fatal encounter. I've had a couple close calls but so far (knocking hand on wooden head) have been fortunate in only having near misses. It's a difficult equation. We had an incident in 1998 wherein a drunk tresspasser climbed up on the top of the 614's boiler while it sat dead in the yard in Hoboken waiting to go into the wheel truing shop to turn the tender wheels. He later testified that his reason for being up there is that he wanted to look down the smokestack. He was zapped by the live overhead wires (12,000 votes DC???) which knocked him off the engine to the ground and set his clothes on fire. Somehow he lived through it and despite the fact that he was a tresspasser and drunk the insurance carrier for NJTransit agreed to pay him $900,000 on the eve of a jury trial as they were afraid that the jury might award him more!!! Therein lies part of the problem. The lawyers are well aware of this and circle these incidents much as buzzards circle road kill. This guys lawyers were on 40% retainer so after they took thier cut and he paid his extensive medical bills he ended up with near nothing!!! Seems to me it won't change unless we change the ability of the lawyers to take on these cases on contingency??? And if we do that is that fair to the majority of would be plaintiffs who don't have the means to afford counsel??? Going to take someone a lot wiser than I to sort this out!! Ross Rowland |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
I believe that they're either 600-1200v DC (if you're referring to the catenary). If it were a main transmission line, it could well be more but there's no way you'd make contact with a main transmission line standing atop a locomotive. |
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| Author: | Clem [ Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not quite our worst nightmare come true..... |
Alan Maples wrote: How well prepared is your museum/tourist railroad to deal with a situation like this?
You hit on a key issue here. The first responders are a phone or radio call away. They take over the scene once they arrive. The biggest thing that needs to be remembered is that the engineer is the one that carries this baggage for a LONG time after the accident. This is the longest walk that a conductor will ever have to make. Railroads as a whole are finally catching on to this. Critical incident debriefings are coming into play now. I know that UP and even BNSF offer training programs for employees on a voluntary basis. These are a peer support program. Who better to help someone trough this than another that knows exactly what you are dealing with. These guys are in my thoughts and prayers as I know what they are dealing with. This is an unfortunate, all too often reality when railroading. |
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