Now I hope this thread stays ONLY on the PB.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say the former Rio Grande PB comes up for sale, and Doyle is willing to sell the "extra pair" of trucks he owns. If you're not aware of this carbody, it's been turned into a steam generator car, and now rides on 4 axle EMD Blomberg trucks.

Do you:

1) preserve the PB "as-is and as retired" with it's "historic fabric" intact.

2) put the "Erie Built" trucks under it, and restore the unit to "as delivered" Rio Grande paint scheme

3) put the 16-244 in it

4) paint it Santa Fe, so the Smithsonian will have a "style representation" of an AB set of PAs

Smokebox

I'd like to vote for #s 2-4, with appropriate historical documentation of the unit's conversion and role as a steam generator/HEP car. Personally, I don't think there's much more 'historical fabric' left on Rio Grande #253 than there is on #16 and #18, so a 're-creation' of a Santa Fe PB doesn't bother me. I also don't think the general public would care much about seeing 'the world's only surviving PB-turned-HEP car'.

I wonder if anyone's asked 'is it for sale' or offered to trade Anschutz another HEP car for it. Surely it's not needed with the F40s being used now on The Ski train. (Of course, I'd offer to buy it myself, but finances are a little tight right now with Christmas and all...)

> Now I hope this thread stays ONLY on the PB.

> Hypothetically speaking, let's say the
> former Rio Grande PB comes up for sale, and
> Doyle is willing to sell the "extra
> pair" of trucks he owns. If you're not
> aware of this carbody, it's been turned into
> a steam generator car, and now rides on 4
> axle EMD Blomberg trucks.

> Do you:

> 1) preserve the PB "as-is and as
> retired" with it's "historic
> fabric" intact.

> 2) put the "Erie Built" trucks
> under it, and restore the unit to "as
> delivered" Rio Grande paint scheme

> 3) put the 16-244 in it

> 4) paint it Santa Fe, so the Smithsonian
> will have a "style representation"
> of an AB set of PAs

> Smokebox


davew833@yahoo.com

Several years ago, I noted somewhere that the other D&RGW PB unit (which retained its Alco trucks and was more historically intact) had been retired, so I contacted the D&RGW storekeeper. He told me the unit had just been sold to a scrapper, which I contacted next. The unit had just been cut up, with neither recognizing its historic significance, and no one attempting to save it.

I'd like to vote for #s 2-4, with
> appropriate historical documentation of the
> unit's conversion and role as a steam
> generator/HEP car. Personally, I don't think
> there's much more 'historical fabric' left
> on Rio Grande #253 than there is on #16 and
> #18, so a 're-creation' of a Santa Fe PB
> doesn't bother me. I also don't think the
> general public would care much about seeing
> 'the world's only surviving PB-turned-HEP
> car'.

> I wonder if anyone's asked 'is it for sale'
> or offered to trade Anschutz another HEP car
> for it. Surely it's not needed with the F40s
> being used now on The Ski train. (Of course,
> I'd offer to buy it myself, but finances are
> a little tight right now with Christmas and
> all...)


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

Operational consideration:

Would there be any performance obstacles to having a 16-244 equipped PB in between two 251-equipped PAs, or one 244 with one 251?

I am assuming not. If that is the case, AND the "spare" trucks are roadworthy, then by all means patch a 244-equipped PB with the operable PAs.

Now, if I recall right, the current owners of the PB would be Union Pacific, which if I recall has a slightly better track record of historical preservation. Nonetheless, I ask: Has anyone formally asked for the unit?

lner4472@bcpl.net

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the PB is actually owned by the Anschutz (ANSCO) corporation, former owner of Southern Pacific/D&RGW before they (SP) merged with UP. ANSCO still owns and operates the annual "Ski Train", as well as a number of private charter rail cars which formerly belonged to D&RGW.

There is a website at www.skitrain.com with contact information for the train itself, which might be a good place to start if anyone's interested in inquiring about the PB's fate or disposition. I don't think it's been used regularly since 1998 when ANSCO started leasing Amtrak F40s with HEP to operate the train. (They've now got three on long-term lease painted into Rio Grande colors.) The PB's probably just kept around for backup now.

The PB started life as PB-1 #6002, was converted to a steam generator in 1965 and renumbered to #253, and rebuilt with two HEP generators in 1987. It lost its original trucks in 1980 for non-motored Blombergs which were easier to maintain. The Blomberg trucks were originally centered in the space where the original trucks were, but they've since been moved in toward the center of the car. Below is a link to a photo from 1998 and more detailed history of the unit.


D&RGW PB photos
davew833@yahoo.com

I have wondered if this unit was still in existance! My recommendation would be:

1) Get a "no scrap" order put on the car immediatly.
2) Fix it up externally as much as is possible as a stock PB.
3) Try to repower her, but in lieu of that, use her for whatever appropriate purpose supports the "A" unit she is tied to (machine shop, crew quarters, buffet car (just joking), etc.)
4) Repaint her in whichever scheme her lead unit is wearing and roll them as an "A-B" pair.
5) The nature of the Diesel locomotive is generally such that one can be placed as another without too much debauchery of history and the senses. It isn't like painting #4449 as a Pennsy loco.

Now somebody tell me, my impression has been that the Smithsonian wants to place their PA indoors, on static display. Has this changed? Is the idea to run the twins as a mated pair? That would be something to see, particularly with a "B" unit and paint schemes that changed every two or three years. They key to saving the big ALCO's is in their incredible design artistry. They are simply examples of American design that will never pass our way again. I don't think paint schemes carry quite the weight with Diesels, and with these three in particular.

Did I stay on topic?


glueck@saturn.caps.maine.edu

My goodness !!!!!

What a ridiculous idea !!!!

Why doesn't every person on this board (and we won't even limit it to thise who ACTUALLY have
workedon/restored equipment) come up with a project that could use $10K to $100K to move it
to completion.

> Now I hope this thread stays ONLY on the PB.

> Hypothetically speaking, let's say the
> former Rio Grande PB comes up for sale, and
> Doyle is willing to sell the "extra
> pair" of trucks he owns. If you're not
> aware of this carbody, it's been turned into
> a steam generator car, and now rides on 4
> axle EMD Blomberg trucks.

> Do you:

> 1) preserve the PB "as-is and as
> retired" with it's "historic
> fabric" intact.

> 2) put the "Erie Built" trucks
> under it, and restore the unit to "as
> delivered" Rio Grande paint scheme

> 3) put the 16-244 in it

> 4) paint it Santa Fe, so the Smithsonian
> will have a "style representation"
> of an AB set of PAs

> Smokebox


74471.3045@compuserve.com

> My goodness !!!!!

> What a ridiculous idea !!!!

> Why doesn't every person on this board (and
> we won't even limit it to thise who ACTUALLY
> have
> workedon/restored equipment) come up with a
> project that could use $10K to $100K to move
> it
> to completion.

I nominate the Smithsonian PA. The PA is in Albany, Or. on active rail, and could be ready for interchange with little work. Being that this is an item in the care of the Smithsonian, I'm sure rail transportation costs could be donated. BNSF I'm sure wouldn't mind getting some good PR on tha fact that an icon from one of its heritage lines will someday be in the Smithsonian.

100k should get a nice cosmetic restoration of a honest to God, warbonnet red and stainless steel covered PA. I can't think of any more deserving project.

Smokebox