Step Number One:

Let's lose the derogatory and intentional misspellings of "diesel" as "dismal" or "diseasel" or anything else, and refrain from similar practices such as calling railroads "CSuX" or "Union-bashing Pacific". It truly makes the practitioners look unprofessional at best and unseemly at worst--and by association, this entire website.

This has been a public service announcement--or at least a proposition.

Flaming someone or a company and calling a piece of equipment by something other than it's official name are two different things.
Let's chill out.

Professionalism?

Let's start with this very thread. We already have 2 or 3 on the front page that is addressing the issue of RYPN. What is the point of this one?

PS. I have int he past called them diseasels, and have called my RR every bad nickname it has. So does anyone else who has to work out here. Want real history? It isn't just the fans that call CSX crash, spill, xplode....

PPS. Of course Ross was famous for calling diesels dismals or diseasels.... coincidence? I think not...

But I must agree with the general concept. We all share similar interests but have different experiences and knowledge. The purpose of the forums, as I see it, is to allow us to convey this knowledge to others. After all, who among us can't afford to learn more about locomotive restoration or operation, trip planning, surviving equipment, or historical information. We are all here to share what we have.

The biggest problem I see is that many people speak when there is no reason for them too. People debate and argue over trivial details while ignoring opportunities to gain understanding. They make guesses or speculate without taking the effort to find factual support simply so they can put their $.02 in. You will notice I don't comment much. Why? I don't know much. As much as I wish I could say otherwise, I am not part of a traincrew and I have not operated a locomotive. I do not have as firm a grasp of the engineering behind locomotives as I would like, and do not know about railroad history or past excursion trips and tourist operations like I should. Therefore, I stay quiet, ask questions when I see that they would be productive, but otherwise let people who know their shit do the talking. This needs to become the norm.

This is one of the primary forums of knowledge regarding railroad preservation. Therefore, it is disturbing to see it devolve like it sometimes does. And everyone is responsible to some extent. We all know something. Together, we know a lot. The purpose of this board is to convey that knowledge to as many people as we can. Lets keep that focus in mind...

Uh Oh! Here comes the first amendment "free speech" argument which doesn't apply in this instance. Of course, being a free discussion board anyone can say anything about anything I suppose. But, let's stop and think about this for just a minute.

What is RyPN trying to do or become has been the question bandied about recently. Since the "future of RyPN" thread is burried somewhere way down there, I concur with Alex's raising the issue in a slightly different way to freshen the discussion and perhaps take it into a slightly different area that may not have been discussed (I don't know, and I'm not about to wade thru 50-plus posts to find out).

I know that this may sound a little elitist but RyPN is not a foamer or railfan site. Now, and in the future, I feel RyPN should act as a forum for active rail preservationists (professionals) to share ideas, discuss rail preservation issues, bring us all up to date on some news on rail preservation, that sort of thing. Throughout it all the operative terms are "rail preservation." That means, by definition, that the discussion in the Interchange should be kept on a professional level, be meaningful and relevant to rail preservation. Regardless of the reason or intention, or someone feeling that it is their god-given right to call something a "diseasel", or to give a railroad a derogatory name simply doesn't fit into my idea of what RyPN should be. Maybe to some people it does, but for the vast majority of true rail preservationists, it certainly doesn't.

The intent of the Interchange, at least as I see it, is not to denigrate anyone or any rail line. What do these silly things have to do with rail preservation? However, that has just happened causing the departure of Bob Yarger and Ross Rowland from the Interchange. This, by itself, should raise a red flag (moderators?), is truly unfortunate and as Alex points out, using these silly or derogatory terms gives the entirely wrong image of what RyPN can, and should, be. This sort of infantile behavior drags down the RyPN site, and the rest of us, and I simply don't want to go there.

I am not suggesting that people stop being negative, spreading rumors or inuendo, or calling a railroad something other that its corporate name. Human nature being what it is, people will do what they want. If you feel the burning urge to voice your opinions on others, fine. But take it elsewhere. Take your silliness down to some other board that maybe appreciates this behavior.

I realize that my comments won't convince the few to go elsewhere. The reality is that they'll come back with the standard free speach argument that, again, doesn't really apply to this Board. So, I hope they keep the din to the minimum and go over to some railfan site to vent their frustration.

Oh, and I can hear it coming now. "If you don't like what I have to say, you can leave or ignore it." Yes, thank you for that blinding glimpse of the obvious. I certainly have that option. But I would just as soon you leave or cut the silliness so I can hear what the vast majority of people have to say without having to avoid the proverbial mouse turds in the process.

Thanks!

Let me be honest.

I am not a "professional preservationist". I am simply a railroad conductor that has interest in history (all types industrial). I am also relatively young (24). Why did I post here? I thought I could give a different viewpoint than some others on here.

Yes your argument is elitist, Mr. Vaitkunas. I think that elitist attitude has harmed this industry. Museums and other historical organizations have been run by cliques for ages. Now those cliques are dying - and guess what - no one else is there to take over.

The "professional preservationists" (of which I am not, apparently), are concerned with the lack of the next generation. But yet you want to dismiss anyone who wants to call a railroad by their well-known nickname? 100 years ago, would we be having a fit if someone called the Maryland and Pennsylvania the "Ma & Pa"? (By the way, I saw an old Ma & Pa GP sitting at Temple - did the RCTHS buy it?)

I know that seems like a lot of effort for a few little nicknames, but who are we to say what constitutes history? To me, CSX will always have a place in history as "Crash, Spill, Xplode". If you do not believe that - then I won't bother posting anymore.

RYPN and similar sites, I truly believe, may help build the bridge from the younger generations to actually opening their wallets and getting their hands dirty in real preservation. But if we make this site elitist, then that bridge has crumbled.

Hi:

You missed my point--probably my fault. RyPN should at least have the appearance of a professional and civil site. In addition, I did not suggest (or imply) that non-preservationists need not participate. I realize that there are those out there who cannot be as active in rail preservation for a variety of reasons.

All I was trying to say (unsuccessfully, apparently) is that the discussion be: civil, on topic, constructive, non-personality directed, not derogatory and not silly.

I think there's a big difference between the "Ma and Pa" you cite and the other examples used in the above posts, don't you? I am not elitist and I hate political correctness in whatever form it takes--but to refer to CSX as you did in your post, while perhaps commonly accepted in the foamer circles or on other discussion boards, doesn't doesn't really contribute anything of value to this site IMHO.

Thanks!

Ah, OK. Perhaps I read it wrong.

actually, crash spill xplode is used by all of us on the railroad - esp when we get their reroutes due to a derailment on their line. (not like we don't have our fair share). Sure the nicknames are popular on the railfan sites - but they do exists for us rails as well. That is where I come from.

All in the context, I believe. I don't usually use the nicknames in my writings, but I don't like the blanket rules either. I still think the best way to improve this site is to add something of value - not discussing why there isn't any. I tried a few days ago, but not being int he profession, am limited in what I can share. I do enjoy reading from the pros though.

How professional do you want to be? My grandad worked nearly 40 years MoW for the "Bums and Outlaws" (B&O, his words). What he called the Chessie is unprintable in a polite forum. AND he usually referred to above mentioned infernal combusted locomotives as "stinkboxes". He was also quite liberal in classifying most muddle managers as "goldbricks"....

Yep, professional railroaders are a rather.... colorful lot.

What ever happened to "Best & Only"?
Shall we follow the example of "Erie Jokes"? The railroad collected and actually printed them in its timetables, until finally a customer asked the Passenger Department for the current copy of Erie Jokebook No. 2!

Every railroad over time accumulates its share of unique nomenclature, jokes (inside jokes, railfan jokes), media portrayals, etc. Though the lens of correctness through which we view it will change over time, it is still part of the texture of railroad history.

This is entirely different from personal attacks, backbiting, innuendo, etc. Any group of people as passionate about a subject as we are will inevitably have some of this surface, but moderator control can contain it.

I then to agree with the concept raised here, but as the moderator I will never moderate someone for using the term "dismal" or "diseasal" or using derivative of a railroad's name. Personally I also find use of initials to be challenging… CP can be Central Pacific, Canadian Pacific or Control Point…. Many of the initials we use have no meaning to someone from across the country.

Professionalism is a difficult concept in much of railroad preservation. Most of us are unpaid or under paid, and most of the paid employees in the field are work on the operations side of things rather than the museum side.

I (and a couple of other posters) happen to work in a museum which is not railroad related. Most museum fields don't have the "foaming" fan involvement which railroad museums do. Most don't have volunteers in management roles.

Some of the professionals in Railroad museums find themselves at odds with the fans, as they do the things museum people do, which do not include running trains. Some museum preservation strategies are at odds with fans who want everything to run.
Some operations people (train crews, mechanics and shop forces) are more “boots and suspenders” in their approach to their jobs. This portion of our membership are less likely to use academic langrage than those identified as curators. It does not make the information provided any less important.

Similarly, the use of professional terms generally indicates professionalism (a concept, not a pay). Use of non professional terms leaves the reader looking for evidence of professionalism. On this board we don't ask for your credentials before giving you access (some academic boards require a application, including credentials) As a result, we are all making judgments about the information in a post. Part of how we judge each other is how we use langrage... Some of our non-professional or vernacular terms have great value as evidence of the culture of railroading. Looser use of langrage also makes this a friendlier environment. I would hate to loose an active railroader who signs on because of an interest in trains…

Where does this leave a board which seems to be spending more time discussing the board’s direction than discussions of trains? As stated above, as a moderator, I probably won’t ever moderate anyone for non academic langrage… I also would hate for the board to read like a gathering of anthropologists or college professors…

I also would hate for the board to read like a gathering of anthropologists or college professors…

Hey Randy, I resemble that remark! ;-) Anthropologists and Archaeologists aren't bad folks...

Best,

Stathi

I am one of the boots and suspenders guys that you mention. I realize that every word that I type here could be perceived as a reflection of the volunteer organization I am actively involved with or even possibly my employer. The concept that we are an ambassador of our individual outfits seems to be lost.

I don't usually respond on subjects like you present here, but I cannot hold my tongue, or fingers in this case.

Before retirement I was an EE at a company that produced the world's top selling oscilloscope. Oscilloscope and Tektronix are synonymous. We joked about and used irreverent names for other companies, suppliers, engineers and officers of the company. So, did the officers. Now all this was done in a local way and was never revealed in front of customers. No harm was intended, and no one was hurt or reduced in stature because of it.

rypn is in essence our local gossip line. Sure good factual technical articles are sometimes posted, and I personally value said articles. But what is wrong with having humor about our profession, or area of public service? I doubt a GP40 is insulted by calling it a dismal, and we all know what it means. And, I seriously doubt outsiders view the terms we use as derogatory. It doesn't mean we won't use a diesel if the opportunity presents itself. At SVRy a donated pickup truck is known as the "Valdez" for obvious reasons, and named this by it's former owner. But it serves it's purpose, and we don't hesitate to use it when needed. Also, our newest coach, donated by members, and restored by members, is known as the "Leviathan". This because of it's large size (it is small std gauge coach, and a large size narrow gauge coach). But all are real pleased with the outcome of it's restoration, and usefullness. We have a tank car that was converted by members to hold water for fire control. It is know as the "Phoenix". Our 10 ton diesel is the "Critter", and on and on.

So, let's have fun with names while still respecting the machines and the work they do for us. At SVRy we have acquired a 50 ton diesel-electric which we are all looking forward to using. Right now we call it 720, the number given by Chiquita Banana. I suppose it will become know by some other name someday ( I think I just suggested a name).

Enjoy Railroading! This is not a dire occupation! (smiley face here)

dan