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| Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24815 |
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| Author: | Ken Jones [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Here's an odd sort of question. Out of all the GG1's preserved, are any of them still in operating condition, have any ever been operated in preservation, AND, providing one was in operating condition, is there a possibility that it could be operated again?? I'm just curios about this. Kinda popped into my head the other day. I guess the same could be asked about one of the Little Joe electrics. Anywho, just wondering. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
There may be one which could pass inspection, but iirc, the GG1's are wired for a different electrical supply. Re-wire one internally and you might have something. In England, that's exactly what they'd do, but in the States? You need to find a donor of big buckos, then twist the arms of either NS or CSX, to run it. |
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| Author: | HOD Bill [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
I think GG-1's have PCB contamination problems that would prohibit any rewiring,etc. Cost to remediate would be astronimical. Anybody else know anything about the PCB issue? |
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| Author: | mxdata [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Here is a link to another discussion on this subject: http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0 |
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| Author: | Scott Kwiatkowski [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Sandy, Should I, Huh, Huh, should I??? Scott |
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| Author: | mxdata [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Scott, I think a GG1 would look great towing around several EMD power generating boxcars. That way you could have as many "engines" as you want and run it almost anywhere a diesel can go. MX |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Noooo comment to Scott, except that I nominate this one for any future "FAQ" file. To reiterate answers I have heard before: SUPPOSEDLY every GG1 had the transformers removed save 4800 and reportedly the 4917/Amtrak 4934 that the Wilmington & Western got and later resold to the Leatherstocking NRHS's operatives. Supposedly one could top off 4917's transformers and it could operate. I'm not sure whether the long-ago proposal to revamp the Northeast Corridor's overhead from PRR's 11KV 25Hz to the more commercially viable 25KV 60Hz. From what I've been told, they still use 11KV south of NYC because refitting the infrastructure to supply the "new" voltage takes cubic money that Amtrak has never been given. Prove me wrong if I am. If someone shows up with an open wallet/checkbook, making a G run again is certainly feasible/possible. The problem is that you're putting new electricals/electronics atop what is still a seventy-year-old cast frame (prone to fatigue cracks) and basically obsolete electrical motors. CAN it be done? Just inject lots of cash. WILL it be done? There are lots better ways for us to spend our money, given that you can't really string catenary over the likes of the Strasburg or buy a section of the Atglen & Susquehanna for it to operate over............ |
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| Author: | EDM [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
This topic seems to make the rounds on a pretty frequent basis. I grew up within a half hour of the PRR main, and went to college and now live even closer to it, so I remember them well. But as much as we would all like to see one come back, there are several factors working against it. As I understand it, the PCB problem could be solved by flushing out and refilling the transformers with one of the newer oils. But if any of the old Paranol oil leaked out or got spilled onto any of the wiring, that wiring would have to get replaced, to clean up the contamination. I have never been in a G motor, but I've been in plenty of old Alcos (and a few EMDs) and seen oil, rust, water and dirt "wicked' into conduits. To say nothing of the age and insulation condition of the wiring; I suspect they were all retired before the introduction of Exane. I imagine those things were filled with asbestos. Another problem that would need professional remediation; just ask anyone with a steam locomotive- The biggest problem, and I've said this here and on other forums, is the condition of the frames and trucks. Towards the end of GG-1 operation (on Amtrak and NJT), they were finding cracks all over the trucks and frames, simply from age and fatigue. Welding and magnafluxing could cure this problem, but at great expense; those frame and truck issues were the final straw that led to the GG-1s retirements. As far as the power supply issue goes, the original PRR electrification is still 11K, 25 cycle. They could run there or on Septa's ex-RDG lines (if the current is there to run a G-). I think Metro-North made some changes on the NH, and I know that NH to Boston is a higher voltage (25K) and commercial frequency, as is the Lackawanna and NY&LB. Other things 'nice' to have (make that necessary) would be new cab signals, 26 air, new radios, etc. I've also seen suggestions that the guts from an AEM-7 or ALP-44 could go into a GG-1, but that would require quite a bit of expensive engineering. It would be great to see one run again, but I think the costs of getting all the PCB and asbestos work done, any rewiring, and any frame and truck testing and repairs would be almost astronomical. I don't see anyone out there, corporate or non-profit, with pockets that deep. Amtrak would be the most logical "sponser", of course, as owners of the NEC, but they don't have the economic resources. Also, in this day and age of lawsuits, liabilities and risks, would any of the owners of "wire", again like Amtrak or Septa, allow any kind of historic equipment operation? Just look at the steam situation here in the Northeast, which is by chance where all the suitable electrified lines are. A neat idea, to be sure, but I don't think it is at all practical. But, maybe someone will prove me wrong- |
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| Author: | mxdata [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Sandy, how about welding some catenary supports to the roof of the GG1 and cabling the overhead to the string of EMD power generating boxcars. That way the GG1 could take its catenary with it everywhere it goes, which wouldn't be far due to the clearance issues. MX |
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| Author: | John Redden [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Amtrak holds "foreign" rolling stock to an exceptionally high safety standard. Ask anyone who has attempted to get a private car past Amtrak certification. There are others who are more knowledgeable than I, but I believe that they would require something akin to a "40 year teardown" of the trucks, and in the case of a GG1, this would probably include the ariculated frames that carry the drive axles. I have only looked at two GG1s closely, and they both had significant weld-repairs due to cracking throughout the areas surrounding the drive axles. My uneducated guess is that, it would be extremely difficult to repair these areas well-enough to pass an Amtrak inspection. JR |
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| Author: | Randall Hicks [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Ken Jones wrote: I guess the same could be asked about one of the Little Joe electrics.
The Little Joe question is much easier to answer. IRM's South Shore 803 is (or was) operable, but hasn't run for many years, because 1) we prefer to keep it on display in a rather inaccessible location, 2) our overhead is not well suited to pans, and 3) we really have nothing useful for it to do. But it doesn't have the many obstacles to operation that a GG1 does. Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Randall Hicks wrote: The Little Joe question is much easier to answer. IRM's South Shore 803 is (or was) operable, but hasn't run for many years, because.....we really have nothing useful for it to do. But it doesn't have the many obstacles to operation that a GG1 does.
Hope this helps. Randall - Nothing useful for it to do? How about a photo freight with 6 or 8 vintage freight cars from the IRM collection and a nice orange South Shore caboose bringing up the rear? Les |
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| Author: | phil [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
great idea. when would you be able to come out, bring several of your friends and their checkbooks, and work on getting it done? unfortunately resources are not only simply financial. In an all volunteer world, Randy is making huge strides on other pieces of equipment, and at the risk of putting words in his mouth, would most likely love to see it run if someone could "make it so" |
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| Author: | AlderGulch12 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Ya know we have here in my state: -Little Joe Electric -E57B Boxcab -Harlowtown Ship Switcher If only we had a proper railway museum! |
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| Author: | o anderson [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hypothetically, are any GG1's operable? |
Sounds good to me, Les. Do you know of a good South Shore caboose that could be added to the IRM collection? They don't have one. The biggest problem with operation has to do with pantographs and a shortage of volunteers working on the DC line department (a 1 man crew these days). |
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