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Status of UK's Lord Nelson & Green Arrow
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24821		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Joshua K. Blay [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Status of UK's Lord Nelson & Green Arrow
I've been able to glean a few things from the net and magazines but I am unsure about the future of these two engines.

ex Southern Railway Lord Nelson
Withdrawn from service last year after a short revival after being restored. Sounded like she would not run again, now things are different?

ex LNER Green Arrow
On again, off again running status. Sounds like she's going to be withdrawn to a static display in a few weeks. However, I received this schedule for Green Arrow from the NRM in November when I inquired of her schedule this year:

Jan. – Feb. National Railway Museum

Mar. North Yorkshire Moors Railway

Apr onwards Overhaul.

Can anyone help?

Regards,

JKB
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
March 2008 Railway Magazine has a full-page ad for the Churnet Valley Ry.'s appearance of 4771: Green Arrow Weekend 16th/17th Feb., Driver Experience Courses today/tomorrow, major gala with 4771, Super D 49395, and 4F 44422 and and several other steamers on display or operating:

www.churnetvalleyrailway.co.uk

News Pages indicate 4771 came from a visit to the East Lancashire Ry. in Jan.; next stop is NYMR, "which should see out its boiler ticket," and then to Locomotion at Shildon for static display.

I'm not seeing any news/notice on Lord Nelson.

In other news, there are now no fewer than 40 BR Class 37 diesels in preservation, and BR 8P 71000 is back on mainline duty......
Author:  argentina [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
4771 is not likely to return to service as the cylinder block is life expired. The National Railway Museum want to keep the loco in original form rather than get new cylinders (the 3 were cast as one piece) despite it becoming "old hat" to replace cylinder over here!

As for 850 she's had some form of major firebox problem - the boiler is virtually but not totally new. Everyone is tight lipped on what the score is but rumours are she'll be back. But who knows!
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
Photo of her last weekend, courtesy Graham Williams and RailPictures.net:

Image
Author:  Onder [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
The latest word on the Lord Nelson is that the boiler isnt
damaged and a 8 step program to inspect and repair
the engine is underway. It may be back in steam
by late summer.

The former team leader of the project has stepped
down.

Good luck to them, a sad difficult story for all
involved.
Author:  Jim Livesey [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
Sorry to be late on this as I am catching up.

Last Tuesday I spoke to the man who found that the problems with Lord Nelson's firebox were relatively minor and who has subsequently been repairing same. He expected to have a fire in her in two-three weeks.

It has not been advertised but the loco is expected to be used on some of the "Scarborough Spa Express" workings this summer.

Regarding Green Arrow. It is true that there are problems with the three cylinder/smokebox saddle cast monoblock. This is an original design feature and was replaced on several members of the class by separate cylinder castings (a cheaper job). However recent statements by the NRM have less dogmatic about the loco not working again. It is now possible that the monblock will be repaired/replaced as part of an overhaul in a few years time.

Don't quote me on the time span......they still have to finish 4472 yet!
Author:  Scott Markloff [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
I've wondered for awhile why NRM is opposed to a new cylinder block being cast/built for 'Green Arrow'. Its not as if someone will be required to dispose of the old one. In fact, it would be even more accessible for historic and educational purposes while out of the loco. One day when the loco is finally stuffed and mounted at NRM, the original cylinder block could always be reinstalled.

Does anyone out there know why they would be opposed to this scenario? Concerning a closely related issue, I've often wondered why they dispose of historic boilers and/or fireboxes when they replace those as well. They also would be useful for future research and education and far more accessible for the public than a mounted boiler and especially an installed firebox?
Author:  Les Beckman [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
This is a bit off thread, and for that I apologize. But here is a photo of King class 4-6-0 #6024, King Edward I:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 3&nseq=132

No, not Green Arrow or Lord Nelson, but King Edward I is definitely undergoing repairs at the ex-Great Western Didcot locomotive depot, now a museum.

Les
Author:  argentina [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
It's the annual winter maintenance for 6024 at the moment. More info here:
http://www.huwbutton.com/6024/main.htm

The outside right cylinder seen minus piston etc has had a crack repaired in the cast iron block.
Author:  Jim Livesey [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
I can only try to answer your excellent point by trying to explain what I believe to be the NRM staff's thinking about the loco. I have no connection with the museum apart from being a fairly frequent visitor (Its only 40 miles away and costs nowt to enter - I am a Yorkshireman).

The concern about the condition of the monoblock casting goes back over some years, possibly to the loco's first restoration for preservation at Doncaster works in 1963. I understand that the casting has been "stitched" at least once to patch it up.

With the loco's boiler time about to expire a preliminary assessment was made as to what would need doing to make the loco fit for further use - preferably running on Network Rail. The state of the monoblock casting became the major sticking point regarding an overhaul. If the present cylinder block cannot be repaired can it be replaced?

It is possible to do as British Railways did from the 1950s and replace it with three seperate castings - left and right outside cylinders and centre cylinder/smokebox saddle. BUT this would mean that the loco was no longer in its original designed state.

I think that the other possibility, a replacement monoblock casting, was not thought to be able to be manufactured owing to the complexity of the casting required.

Since the original statements were made by NRM spokesperson (s) I have noticed a change in tone in comments made by senior managers to the effect that the loco is too useful to permanently stuff and mount.

This SUGGESTS that either someone in the casting industry has whispered that it is possible to replicate the monoblock or that consideration of the BR repair option is now on the agenda.

Either way will cost money the NRM does not have so the overhaul would need to be sponsored by either or both a coporate sponsor/donation appeal. It is worth pointing out that the loco's last overhaul was paid for by a rather well off industrialist.

As I stated in my previous post the loco will be parked up this spring because the NRM has plenty repair work to complete on other locos.
Author:  Trevor Heath [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Status of Green Arrow
There has been considerable dialog in England about what constitutes an original locomotive.

There are locos in running order today where all that remains is the main frames from the original build.

I personally have no issue with this but others do.

Because the "Green Arrow" is a unique, sole survivor of the class. I'm sure this has a bearing on the thinking.

TH
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