Railway Preservation News :: View topic - C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA

The locomotive is about a block from the West end of a tunnel that is about 1100 feet long, as I recall, that slopes upward to the East and is full of water and muck. In the past some buildings on up the hill have collapsed on account of changes in the water pressure that were attributed to the tunnel. If the water is drained from the tunnel as part of a recovery effort, there appears to be a substantial posibility that additional buildings could collapse or be damaged. The alternative would be to somehow seal off the tunnel to the East of the locomotive and then dig it up. Estimates of the total cost of doing this were in the $5 million range so the project was abandoned.
The locomotive definately is still in the tunnel.
Pete Claussen

Author:	kevin kohls [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
About two years ago someone was attempting to salvage the C&O 4-4-0 that was buried in the Church Hill Tunnel in Richmond, VA. Did anything ever come of that? Kevin Kohls

Author:	Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
kevin kohls wrote: About two years ago someone was attempting to salvage the C&O 4-4-0 that was buried in the Church Hill Tunnel in Richmond, VA. Did anything ever come of that? Kevin Kohls Kevin - Glad you asked the question. I have been wondering myself. This seemed to be a legitimate attempt to recover the C&O 4-4-0, and possibly any other equipment, and also to see if the remains of the two missing workers could be found. I seem to recall that there was a problem with water in the tunnel, but that seems to be where it was left. Update anyone? Les

Author:	Robin Warren [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
I got 4 pages of stuff on a Google search. Couple of websites with information but all outdated. One site had a research pdf dated 2006 and another had an entry dated 2007. Basically nada.

Author:	trainspot [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
Here's the last thread: http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20984&highlight=richmond

Author:	Robin Warren [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
That string was about the 4 loco's in scrap yard.

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C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24883	Page 1 of 3

Author:	trainspot [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
I just noticed & corrected it. Sorry!

Author:	Les Beckman [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
trainspot wrote: Here's the last thread: http://rypn.sunserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20984&highlight=richmond So, its been over a year and a half ago that "the hydrologist and the city engineering department are going to study this....." It would seem that perhaps the study should have been done by now. Perhaps if Pete Claussen is still on RyPN, he might give us an update of what has, or has not, been going on. Les

Author:	203 [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
The locomotive is about a block from the West end of a tunnel that is about 1100 feet long, as I recall, that slopes upward to the East and is full of water and muck. In the past some buildings on up the hill have collapsed on account of changes in the water pressure that were attributed to the tunnel. If the water is drained from the tunnel as part of a recovery effort, there appears to be a substantial posibility that additional buildings could collapse or be damaged. The alternative would be to somehow seal off the tunnel to the East of the locomotive and then dig it up. Estimates of the total cost of doing this were in the $5 million range so the project was abandoned. The locomotive definately is still in the tunnel. Pete Claussen

Author:	Robin Warren [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
If you can run a robotic camera on the surface of Mars then why not under the streets of Richmond?

Author:	Les Beckman [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
203 wrote: The locomotive is about a block from the West end of a tunnel that is about 1100 feet long, as I recall, that slopes upward to the East and is full of water and muck. In the past some buildings on up the hill have collapsed on account of changes in the water pressure that were attributed to the tunnel. If the water is drained from the tunnel as part of a recovery effort, there appears to be a substantial posibility that additional buildings could collapse or be damaged. The alternative would be to somehow seal off the tunnel to the East of the locomotive and then dig it up. Estimates of the total cost of doing this were in the $5 million range so the project was abandoned. The locomotive definately is still in the tunnel. Pete Claussen Pete - This is probably a stupid question, but as the water is slowly drained from the tunnel, couldn't air be pumped in to keep the pressure constant? At a lot less than $5 million? This still seems like a do-able reclaimation project. Les

Author:	Richard Glueck [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
Furthermore, hydrostatic pressure is only as good as the weight of the water continues to support the sides of the tunnel. If buildings have previously collapsed, I would suggest those dependent on the water in the tunnel are "built on shifting sands", so to speak. I would suggest the best alternative is to evacuate the buildings, remove the water, remove the locomotive, backfill the tunnel or secure the walls with something other than water. Of course, they never asked me.

Author:	Mgoldman [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
On the plus side, it would seem easy to model this. Where does the actual problem come in - is it from a release of pressure when opening a sealed tunnel... as someone had mentioned, why can't "something" be pumped in to replace the water that is pumped out? Well, all at a cost, I suppose.

Author:	Dave [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
Find myself agreeing with Richard (again). The support of a stable water table is one thing, we have seen some relatively new homes on slabs shift during our recent drought in the Southeast. Holding up a mountain with a tunnel full of water well above the water table is another. There will be a blowout and the water will disappear some day. This is kind of like those towns built on burning coal mines, eventually sinkholes happen and buildings disappear. Why not either remove the structures and deal with it, or make a plan to drain and reinforce the tunnel - in sections of necessary - if preserving the structures is required? dave

Author:	Afboone [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
$5 million is a lot of money to save one engine that no one has seen in decades. I think you guys could spend a quarter of that on the engines sitting in the scrap yard. At least you know what you are getting!

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Author:	mxdata [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: C&O 4-4-0 in Church Hill Tunnel Richmond, VA
Yeah, for one choo-choo that has been crushed by a cave-in and spent many decades underwater like the TITANIC, $5 million is definitely a lot of money. I can think of a lot of things that need that money more urgently. MX