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| Three Rivers Rambler Question https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24947 |
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| Author: | jwallis [ Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Three Rivers Rambler Question |
I just looked at the Three Rivers Rambler excursion schedule for 2008, and I was surprised how little they are running steam this year. Anyone know why? |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler Question |
I have a hunch, but am not rock solid certain. I did note that the owner's two private cars (one of them being the French Broad River) are both listed as for sale. |
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| Author: | Dave Crosby [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
I saw that as well. On the steamlocomotive.info site Jeff Parrott says fuel prices are keeping the 203 off line for most dates. That's too bad, as I was planning a visit in October. Looks like Dollywood and TVRM will get my $$$ instead. http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive ... splay=1115 Any other operators out there curtailing steam due to the direct impact of rising fuel prices, oil fired engines in particular? I know Nevada State RR Museum had to ax running steam on at least one date (July 4th) last year because their yearly fuel budget/alottment (funded months prior) could not cover rising fuel prices. Dave Crosby |
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| Author: | jwallis [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
That same site says that insurance is playing a role as well. 203 burns coal. Has the price of coal risen substantially? |
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| Author: | Andrew Durden [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
203 is actually an oil burner, formally coal. Coal prices have risen lately, but it's still cheaper to burn black rocks. |
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| Author: | hi-plains [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
Dave Crosby wrote: I saw that as well. On the steamlocomotive.info site Jeff Parrott says fuel prices are keeping the 203 off line for most dates.
What happened to the notion of burning waste fuels, such as old motor oil, etc? |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
And, depending where you are located it is almost a wash either way. Coal is running at close to $200 ton here in mid wisconsin. For all oil powered monsters out there it would be worth locating your nearest used vegi oil dealer/collector. I have found the stuff for as little as .70 a gallon...it's been filtered and makes one crave fried food but cheap and hotter than petroleum so in the long run it is cheaper yet since you use less. Also, a HUGE bonus, not more than a gray haze... |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Fuel costs... |
Fuel costs may shutter marginal operators more quickly than insurance and soon. The price of diesel will increase the cost of coal delivery substantially, as it is near record high prices and with no downturn in sight. We will either have to pass the costs on to the public or eat the losses-something that not many of us can afford to do for long. Like it or not, we're all going to have to consider alternative fuel sources at some point. |
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| Author: | junior [ Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
So THAT was the engine that ran on the OBR in Florida.... Wow...a much traveled loco. |
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| Author: | Tim Andrews [ Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel costs... |
We did a quick, down and dirty analysis yesterday. Our coal costs have risen to $160 delivered for met coal (was $120 when we closed for the season at the end of December). We burn 3-4 tons per day so our cost is $480 to $640 per day. If our average ticket price (different prices for adults and children) is $13.00 we need 49 passengers just to pay for fuel. With a diesel lcomotive the cost is about $160 per day (50 gallons and $3.20 per gallon). Takes about 12 people to pay for the fuel. TVRM already operates an extensive schedule of diesel powered days when crowds are not expected to be as great, usually during the week. Will we be forced to do more? I think its too early to tell but has to be considered. Tim Andrews TVRM Chattanooga, TN |
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| Author: | Sully [ Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
Jason, if you could explain or show how a vegetable oil is hotter than the comparative petroleum product in BTUs or some other way, I'd be interested. |
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| Author: | Nigel Anthony Hewer Day [ Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
The reasons in this thread and postings are some of the reasons why I started to modify locomotives. It needs to be done to make sure steam survives. There are three main things which need doing. Firstly the boiler needs preventative maintence in the form of water treatment in the form Porta recomends. There is currently no one is doing this most important item of steam locomotive maintence in the USA, somthing that needs putting right urgently. The size of the problem is huge and can be shown by the fact that one boiler I have been involved with was losing over 50% of its BTU transfer due to scale. Thats alot of fuel and money wasted. Secondly The technology of draughting is such that by redraughting around 10 % is a minimum improvement in gains and 30% being common with 50% in some instances is posible. The gains are different depending upon each locomotive. It dose not have to show an externally visible change but with a little care it can be done and show a small visible change that we are improving things. Almost all locomotives in the USA need this work. Thirdly Fuel conversion dose not inistself make an engine more efficient but the cost depends up the usable BTU in the fuel and its relative burning efficiency. The big mistake has been to commit to one fuel, The solution is to use the right fuel in the right place in the right combustion system. Liquid bio fuels vary in thier qualities from half the BTU to over 10% more than diesel. Also the temprature of combustion can be higher. You should also not discount upgrading solid fuel combustion. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | . |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
Sully, My comment is based off of the real world results experienced at disney world. Over the course of the last 3 years the went from from straight fuel oil, to a mix, to about 99% used fryer oil. In the process the average fuel consumption has droped from 30 to 70 gallons per day depending upon the locomotive. I will not claim to be able to explain why or how, the nuts and bolts of such things are outside of my knowledge base. Another plus to such fuels is the fact that when any NIMBY types try to make a stink one could honestly say that a bio(green) fuel is already being used. |
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| Author: | mxdata [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Three Rivers Rambler/Fuel Costs |
Well this is certainly going to be an interesting year, prices for all types of fuel going right into the stratosphere and everybody I know is cutting back on traveling. The local hobby shop owner tells me that his sales are down significantly too. Looks like we are headed for some hard times. Seems like financial issues may need to take front stage at the ARM and TRAIN conventions this year. MX |
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