Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire

Sloan always called it "the President's Car" which I took that to mean the President of whichever railroad it was from. I can't seem to find any photos with a quick Google search.

Somewhere in the vicinity of the Kane facility, the ex-Penn View Mountain coach and a business car of D&H heritage were stored after their move from Marienville as well. I believe it was the PVM car that was wooden, and had been converted from an ancient elevated railroad car.

It sounds like this is ex-Manhattan [Elevated] Railway 782, built by Pullman in 1881. My records are quite fuzzy on its history after it was sold by the NYC Board of Transportation (successor to the IRT and Manhattan Ry) for use at the Ravenna Ordinance Plant in 1942. If this car was indeed used by PVM, when was it acquired by PVM and did it go to Gettysburg in 1976 along with at least some other PVM equipment?

Author:	K.R. Bell [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
From the Bradford, PA Era newspaper Arson fire in Kane causes $1 million in damage, severely burns two locomotives once used for Kinzua Bridge State Park tourist trips By ADAM VOSLER Era Reporter An arson fire early Sunday at a Biddle Street building in Kane caused $1 million in damage and severely burned two locomotives that were once used for Kinzua Bridge State Park tourist trips. Investigators found that someone forcibly entered a warehouse about 2:15 a.m. and set it on fire, according to a press release issued by Kane-based state police. No injuries were reported, officials said. The building contained two steam locomotives owned by B. Sloan Cornell of Marienville ��” one a diesel locomotive and the other a luxury dining car built in the 1890s and restored in the 1930s, police said. The structure, whose owner was not immediately clear, also held numerous locomotive parts and railroad-related equipment. The metal structure was a one-story, 44 foot-by-160 foot railroad car storage building, police said. It suffered heavy damage, as did the two trains, according to Kane Volunteer Fire Department Chief Art Brechtel. He was unsure if the trains were a total loss. Upon arrival, fire crews found heavy smoke and flames coming from the warehouse, Brechtel accounted. “Crews did a good job on the initial knockdown of the fire,” he said. Firefighters came back to the scene at 9:57 a.m. when the fire rekindled, though Brechtel called it nothing serious. Mount Jewett, Highland Township, Sheffield, Ludlow, Kane, Hamlin Township, Wilcox and Ridgway volunteer firefighters all responded to the scene. Cpl. Thomas E. Josephson, a state police fire marshal, worked with Kane Volunteer Fire Department and Kane Borough Police in the investigation. A police dog even joined the response. Kane Borough Police will continue the investigation. The affected trains once provided tourists with a trip from Marienville, with a stop in Kane to pick up passengers, to Kinzua Bridge and through nearby forestland. After 17 years, Knox & Kane Railroad, also owned by Cornell, stopped offering scenic train rides to the park due to a lack of interest following the Kinzua Bridge’s fall. Kinzua Bridge, located in Mount Jewett, was hammered by a tornado July 21, 2003, resulting in the loss of 11 support towers. The internationally recognized viaduct was constructed in 1882, “the longest and highest railroad bridge in the world” upon its completion, according to www.kinzuabridge.com. The potential loss of the trains would be another blow to ongoing Kinzua Bridge State Park restoration processes, according to Mary Ann Burggraf, executive director of the Kinzua Bridge Foundation. “Any negative event that takes place is a detriment to the park ... whether its the development (efforts) or anything (else),” she said. It is unclear if the trains were going to be used at the park again. However, talk of running the train from Kane to Mount Jewett had come up recently. “We’re in support of it,” Burggraf said. John Hafer, who takes care of the trains for Cornell, his grandfather, confirmed the idea had been contemplated, though Sunday’s fire has brought any action to a standstill. “A lot of things changed after this morning,” he said. A message left seeking comment from Bill Kilmer and Debbie Lunden, who are both involved with the Kinzua Bridge Foundation, were not immediately returned Sunday night. Meanwhile, an e-mail seeking comment from Allegheny National Forest Vacation Bureau Executive Director Linda Devlin also wasn’t immediately returned.

Author:	Bobharbison [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
OK, I'm a bit confused by the fact that two steam locomotives are actually a diesel and a coach, but anyway... > a luxury dining car built in the 1890s and restored in the 1930s Back in the early 1980's I worked at Gettysburg for a summer. Way in the back of the long two track carbarn/enginehouse he had a beatiful old passenger car. I seem to recall it was a private car, but it may have been a dining car as described. I also think it had a wood body, but it's been many years, and I can't recally any details other than that it was a very nice car, and seemed in good condition. It never left the enginehouse, at least when I worked there. It certainly didn't look like it had been moved in a long while. Anyone know anything about that car? I'm guessing it may be the same one mentioned in the article.

Author:	K.R. Bell [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
I'm guessing what you saw was the ex-Buffalo & Susquehanna RR wooden combine built 1906 by Barney & Smith. It was kept in the Gettysburg RR engine house until 1998 when the Cornells vacated the GRR for the K&K. It was donated by Sloan Cornell to the Railroad Museum of PA in 1998.

Author:	Bobharbison [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
> I'm guessing what you saw was the ex-Buffalo & Susquehanna > RR wooden combine built 1906 by Barney & Smith. That may well be it, but I'm not certain. Are there any photos online? Sloan always called it "the President's Car" which I took that to mean the President of whichever railroad it was from. I can't seem to find any photos with a quick Google search. I thought the RR Museum of PA would have a gallery online of their roster but if the do I can't locate it. Also, since this is apparently a different car from the one in the fire, what's the history on that car?

Author:	Dave Albright [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
Wasn't there a B&O platform observation car in the Gettysburg shed? And, it seems to me the car in Kane was a D&H. But memory fades over the years. I am fairly certain the two steam locos were the Chinese 2-8-2 and the H&BT 38. The diesel should have been the former WM GP9 (or was it a 7?)

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Author:	John Redden [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
Just got off of the phone with a relative who lives in the area. Paraphrasing the article from the nearby Olean (NY) newspaper, the engine house contained two steam locomotives, a diesel locomotive, and an "antique dining car", that dates from the 1890s, and was rebuilt in the 1930s. The photo in the Olean paper shows firefighters in front of the "SY steam locomotive", which according to my relative, appears badly blackened by smoke. There were no other details as to the extent of the damage. So, based on my knowledge of the K&K roster, the victims would probably be: The SY-class Chinese 2-8-2 The former Huntington & Broad Top Mtn 2-8-0 #38 An unknown diesel An unknown 1890s vintage dining car. Diesels on the K&K have included a former WM GP-9, a former steel-mill Baldwin switcher, an industrial center cab (Whitcomb, perhaps?), and a former Nickel Plate RS-36. The RS-36 was reported to have been scrapped for parts sometime in the past year, so if that report is correct, the diesel in question would probably be one of the other three. John Redden

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
K&K's motive "power", such as it has been over the years, has been among the worst "dog's breakfast" compilations of random junk in history. There's basically no way to trust even an online roster. I'm guessing the center-cab diesel is a former Porter 50-ton built in 1946, serial 7798, according to Ed Lewis' Shortline Railway Guide 3rd ed. My memory says the surviving Baldwin was either 337 or 338, DS4-4-1000, ex-some darned Beth Steel line or another (C&BL?). The ex-WM chop-nose GP9 may be ex-Johnsonburg, Kane, Warren, & Irvin 6414, ex-Chessie number 6414............ That being said, what of 38 (which I have heard many say is a perfect RR Museum of Pa. candidate) or the Chinese SY?

Author:	John Redden [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
A small bit of further information from a second relative in the area: He works with two volunteer firefighters who helped fight the fire. Paraphrasing their words, anything inside that could burn, did burn. Does not seem to bode well for any of the aforementioned rolling stock. JR

Author:	nickbnwd [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
I believe the enginehouse had the green wood D&H passenger car, the SY 2-8-2 #1658, H&BT 2-8-0 #38, and WM GP9 #39. Those are the only locomotives left on the line. #38's tender had been build new about 10 years ago and was only outside twice. I feel sick. Nick

Author:	kburkey [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
I can be say with certainty that the locomotives in the enginehouse at Kane, which was recently expanded to accomodate the equipment that had been previously stored at Marienville, were ex-H&BTM BLW 2-8-0 38, K&K 58 (the Chinese Mike), and GP9 39 (ex-WM 39/6414). These were the last locomotives rostered by the K&K. Somewhere in the vicinity of the Kane facility, the ex-Penn View Mountain coach and a business car of D&H heritage were stored after their move from Marienville as well. I believe it was the PVM car that was wooden, and had been converted from an ancient elevated railroad car. I know that Kane is not on the beaten path for most folks, but has anyone actually seen what the damage is like? All these are very significant losses. Due to the great kindness of a friend that knows Sloan and John, and knew of my regret of not being able to ride the K&K previously, I was able to get a heads up on the train trips for the September 2006 Marienville Oktoberfest, which were unpublicized. The day's power was the 39, and trailing were an ex-LI Ping Pong and an Open Car. They made five or six shuttles north of town that day, and I rode all but one, the last two in the cab of the 39. The day was almost totally soggy and cool, but remains one of the best days that I have ever spent on a railroad. John and Sloan were nothing but the best to me that day and left me with open invitations to return any time to see what they were going to do up at Kane. To think that I rode on what may prove to be 39's last-ever revenue run, after it was one of the first shortline diesels that I ever photographed as a child, is surreal. However, the possible loss of 38, after all the time I've spent researching the H&BTM, is simply unfathomable. After all that locomotive has survived: the bankruptcy of it's first owner, being completely beaten and worn out, being rebuilt, wearing out again, and finally being stored with a brand new tender, only to be hit by an arsonist's torch... well, I can't comprehend that. What a pity. That cool September day in Marienville took on a whole new significance today. Best of luck to John and Sloan, and thanks again to that friend that made it possible. Keith

Author:	Alan Maples [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
Bobharbison wrote: Sloan always called it "the President's Car" which I took that to mean the President of whichever railroad it was from. I can't seem to find any photos with a quick Google search. The "President's Car" was a former D&H wood arch-roof coach that had lounge chairs at one end. I believe it came from the D&H in that configuration, probably following the Sterzing administration. The Knox & Kane used the car sparingly and otherwise kept it stored indoors, which probably accounts for the general lack of pictures. Unfortunately, I understand that this car was effectively destroyed in the fire. Damage to the other equipment reportedly varies. The diesel at Kane was an ex-WM GP-9 and it was the last diesel on the property, all the others having been previously disposed of. The Penn View Mountain excursion coach referred to in another post remains stored indoors at Marienville, in poor condition. I understand the fire is being investigated as arson following a break in/theft. Alan Maples

Author:	PRRK4s [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
I was there looking at the equipment on the Knox Kane between Christmas and New Years that just past. Indeed, the four pieces in that building at the time was the 2-8-0, the 2-8-2, the Business Car and the Chop Nose diesel. That was it. Two were in one section and divided by a wall was the other two. I can't recall which was with what. Yes, lots of tools, and parts were seen too. Sloan's Grandson was working in the small station at that time but he took us into the enginehouse to see the stuff in storage and told us the 2-8-0 was going to get a new tender built soon. I had been up there several years ago and at that time all the equipment in the recent fire was down in the enginehouse near where their headquartrs is. Most everything else they own was still down there in late 2007 as well. (rail bus, numerous freight and passenger equipment) I am sure that Business car, being of wood, suffered the most significant damage or complete loss.......Gary

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
Okay, is someone going to make a trip for photos, or am I going to have to run up from Baltimore?

Author:	Frank Hicks [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Knox & Kane Enginehouse Perishes in Fire
kburkey wrote: Somewhere in the vicinity of the Kane facility, the ex-Penn View Mountain coach and a business car of D&H heritage were stored after their move from Marienville as well. I believe it was the PVM car that was wooden, and had been converted from an ancient elevated railroad car. It sounds like this is ex-Manhattan [Elevated] Railway 782, built by Pullman in 1881. My records are quite fuzzy on its history after it was sold by the NYC Board of Transportation (successor to the IRT and Manhattan Ry) for use at the Ravenna Ordinance Plant in 1942. If this car was indeed used by PVM, when was it acquired by PVM and did it go to Gettysburg in 1976 along with at least some other PVM equipment? Any info would be appreciated... thanks!!

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