Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View

I'm offended that one of the premiere railroad museums in the country did not use the Porter conversion, and opted for the cheap fake.

I'm offended that one of the premiere railroad museums in the country did not use the Porter conversion, and opted for the cheap fake. They certainly charged enough to justify a real steam locomotive. If I'm wrong about what they were using, I'm sorry, but it sure looked didn't look like the "Thomas" those of us who went to Strasburg last July saw in the engine house.

Maybe he wanted to see the engine on a curve but he couldn't enter the vestibule because is wall packed with guys wielding $2000 in cameras and sound equipment.

Kids care... or at least mine would have. But perhaps that is because of their railroad roots!

Was/Is there some type of disclaimer on the advertising for the "fake Thomas" (for lack of a better term) events making it clear that Thomas isn't live steam? If not, I believe that whether the kids care or not, the parents would have a right to be upset having shelled out what amounts to a pile of cash for something less-than-expected. It'd be kinda like paying extra for a 3D movie and not getting the glasses. One can see the film, it just doesn't pack the same punch.

Then you must have had EXTREMELY mature 2 to 4 year old kids. Those are the ages of most kids who have an interest in Thomas. Kids that age also don't even know what "railroad roots" are let along know the difference between a live steam engine and a dummy.

No false advertising here.

In the four years we have been doing our DOWT event, not one parent has complained about Thomas not being live steam! Not one person in about 100,000 people over four years. The odd parent has found other things to complain about, but this wasn't one of them.

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue May 06, 2008 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
While some of you are out there either photographing the Thomases or helping to keep your venue from utter collapse during a DOWT, I thought some of you would appreciate (or, rather, not) this highly unvarnished review of a Day Out With Thomas at the B&O Railroad Museum, as written from a mother's perspective. Potentially Not Safe For Work, as a couple [bleeps] are dropped somewhat liberally: http://www.amalah.com/amalah/2008/05/theyre-two-they.html Incidentally, from checking out the auxiliary parking lot near the B&O Museum the last couple weekends, it appears that there's a clause in the tickets that mandates that you MUST drive to said event in either a not-so-minivan or one of those bloated SUVs that we all know never leaves blacktop and is maintained in immaculate condition. (....... says the snob about to head to Arizona for real off-road railfanning in a Jeep Cherokee outfitted for search-and-rescue.........)

Author:	PaulWWoodring [ Tue May 06, 2008 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
I'm fairly sure that the Thomas in the video at the B&O museum was one of the non-functional fake steam engines. I'm offended that one of the premiere railroad museums in the country did not use the Porter conversion, and opted for the cheap fake. They certainly charged enough to justify a real steam locomotive. If I'm wrong about what they were using, I'm sorry, but it sure looked didn't look like the "Thomas" those of us who went to Strasburg last July saw in the engine house.

Author:	PJS [ Tue May 06, 2008 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
Quote: I'm offended that one of the premiere railroad museums in the country did not use the Porter conversion, and opted for the cheap fake. Yes, the unpowered Thomas was used by the B&O Railroad Museum, but let me offer a differing opinion about its suitability. This is an event exclusively for pre-schoolers. I worked a a volunteer greeter for two days of the event, and saw thousands of young children catch their first sight of Thomas and run excitedly right towards "him" Most wanted to get as close to their "hero" as they could. I am sure their parents were delighted that there was no chance their kids would step in grease and oil, be scared to death when the safety popped, or worse senario escape from the line waiting to get their picture up close and personal with their friend, touch the blue fellow and possibly get hurt. Particularly after this experience I am convinced that the unpowered version is superior for the purpose intended. Given this special audience, iIt is cleaner, safer and quieter. I did not hear anyone who actually bought a icket complain about the fact Thomas wasn't a real steam engine. I don't know why the B&O chose the unpowered version. In the past they did host the steam version, and regularly run their own tank engine. I do know that IRM, one of the largest Thomas venues and very comfortable with operating steam, went back to to unpowered version after one year with the real steamer, reportedly because they believe it gives their visitors that day a more enjoyable experince,for the reasons stated above.

Author:	Dave Wilson [ Tue May 06, 2008 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
'Fake Thomas'....nope can't get my head around that one. Isn't Thomas "made up" to begin with?

Author:	k5ahudson [ Tue May 06, 2008 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
PaulWWoodring wrote: I'm offended that one of the premiere railroad museums in the country did not use the Porter conversion, and opted for the cheap fake. They certainly charged enough to justify a real steam locomotive. If I'm wrong about what they were using, I'm sorry, but it sure looked didn't look like the "Thomas" those of us who went to Strasburg last July saw in the engine house. First off all, this is an event for the children, not steam drooling adults. Kids don't give a damn if it is live steam or a dummy. From what I understand many children have actually been frightened by the live steam Thomas because of all the noise it makes anyway. Second, the "real" Thomas costs a lot more to operate, and presumably costs more to ship because of the additional weight. The live Thomas is owned by and based in Strasburg, so no shipping required. Third, the B&O does not set the price of the tickets. HIT Entertainment does. At our event at the Elgin County Railway Museum in St. Thomas, Ontario, we have absolutely no control over the price at all, which happens to be $20 in Canada this year by the way. Finally, if you think the $18 ($20 here) is too expensive, consider this.... If you purchased tickets to a two or three hour concert, what would it cost you? Eighty or ninety dollars minimum? Probably a lot more for a big name. You complain about spending $18 for two or three hours with Thomas for your child, but its okay to spend $80 plus for two or three hours for yourself to see Elton John? What's wrong with this picture?

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Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25244	Page 1 of 3

Author:	wesp [ Tue May 06, 2008 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
An interesting perspective regarding safety and the target audience. Makes sense to me, especially if I had the grandkids in tow. Wesley

Author:	Howard P. [ Tue May 06, 2008 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
K5a hudson sums it up neatly and succinctly- the kids don't care. When we were discussing that particular part of the DOWT process, back at the start of our DOWT events, we spent about 14 seconds deciding between the steam Thomas and the non-steam Thomas. It was no contest. Howard P. DOWT Platform Czar, NAUG

Author:	Chris Salmonson [ Tue May 06, 2008 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
Sounds like Noah is a young budding steam fantrip enthusiast! He has already discovered that conundrum that if you pay for a trip, you really can't see the engine! Maybe he wanted to see the engine on a curve but he couldn't enter the vestibule because is wall packed with guys wielding $2000 in cameras and sound equipment. Perhaps in 30 or so years he will soon pace a steam locomotive along the highway driving 30 mph under the speed limit to get that great video. In all seriousness, Thomas is a magic event for kids, similar to meeting that bearded fellow who comes around near the end of the year.

Author:	JRPfeiff [ Tue May 06, 2008 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
Kids care... or at least mine would have. But perhaps that is because of their railroad roots! Was/Is there some type of disclaimer on the advertising for the "fake Thomas" (for lack of a better term) events making it clear that Thomas isn't live steam? If not, I believe that whether the kids care or not, the parents would have a right to be upset having shelled out what amounts to a pile of cash for something less-than-expected. It'd be kinda like paying extra for a 3D movie and not getting the glasses. One can see the film, it just doesn't pack the same punch.

Author:	mxdata [ Tue May 06, 2008 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
If Thomas isn't "live steam" then is he "dead steam"? One of my friends once commented that the model "live steam" hobby should be called "dead steam" because most people who try it end up kicking the bucket before they get a locomotive built and running. MX

Author:	k5ahudson [ Tue May 06, 2008 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
JRPfeiff wrote: Kids care... or at least mine would have. But perhaps that is because of their railroad roots! Then you must have had EXTREMELY mature 2 to 4 year old kids. Those are the ages of most kids who have an interest in Thomas. Kids that age also don't even know what "railroad roots" are let along know the difference between a live steam engine and a dummy. Quote: Was/Is there some type of disclaimer on the advertising for the "fake Thomas" (for lack of a better term) events making it clear that Thomas isn't live steam? If not, I believe that whether the kids care or not, the parents would have a right to be upset having shelled out what amounts to a pile of cash for something less-than-expected. It'd be kinda like paying extra for a 3D movie and not getting the glasses. One can see the film, it just doesn't pack the same punch. It is advertised as a ride behind Thomas and that's what they get. If the parents expected more, then that was created in their own mind. No false advertising here. In the four years we have been doing our DOWT event, not one parent has complained about Thomas not being live steam! Not one person in about 100,000 people over four years. The odd parent has found other things to complain about, but this wasn't one of them.

Author:	JRPfeiff [ Wed May 07, 2008 12:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
k5ahudson wrote: Then you must have had EXTREMELY mature 2 to 4 year old kids. Those are the ages of most kids who have an interest in Thomas. Kids that age also don't even know what "railroad roots" are let along know the difference between a live steam engine and a dummy. Nope, not overly mature. Just interested in railroads and such. I remember leaving the Red Caboose Motel with my son, who commented on the bumper sticker display, "Hey a GG-1!" He was about 4 at the time. Really surprised the clerk. He used to run around preschool getting upset with kids who called them choo choos. He preferred the term steam locomotive. That's just who he was. He's 16 now and couldn't give a crap about a train. A couple years ago I took my daughter to a Thomas event at Strasburg. She was thrilled! A real, steaming Thomas! Pardon my ignorance, but until I read this thread I didn't even know that "dummy" Thomas existed. She, too, (now 6 years old) is very into trains. At her request, she'll watch rail videos a few nights per week before bedtime. It's just who she is. She can tell me the difference between a Shay and a Heisler. Just 'cause she likes 'em so much. Not blanket statements. Just observations on my two kids who would have cared. I wouldn't expect kids to know what "railroad roots" are. My point was that perhaps my perception of the issue is a bit jaded, having a deep-seeded interest (and having had a job or two) in the railroad industry, I may have exposed my kids to more than the "average" parent of a Thomas fan. k5hudson wrote: No false advertising here. I didn't really accuse anyone of false advertising... just asked if there was a disclaimer having not seen any ads for the event. If I had taken my kids to a Thomas event and he wasn't "real," I probably would have been a bit erked. Probably not enough so to complain to anyone other than my wife, but upset nonetheless. k5hudson wrote: In the four years we have been doing our DOWT event, not one parent has complained about Thomas not being live steam! Not one person in about 100,000 people over four years. The odd parent has found other things to complain about, but this wasn't one of them. Excellent! I'm really glad to hear that the events were successful. I hope Thomas continues to be fruitful for those who host the events.

Author:	robertmacdowell [ Wed May 07, 2008 3:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
k5ahudson wrote: In the four years we have been doing our DOWT event, not one parent has complained about Thomas not being live steam! Not one person in about 100,000 people over four years. The odd parent has found other things to complain about, but this wasn't one of them. Hmm. Parents know this is a racket and have low expectations. But this is where authenticity is a pleasant surprise - and it makes a difference to kids, because they pick up on everything! Now the biggest authenticity problem is the other locomotive. The large, loud, obnoxious one actually moving the train. The one whose presence doesn't add up in a child's astute mind, breaks the fantasy as it were. So IMO, Strasburg's Porter isn't more authentic because it's live steam (heck Thomas on TV isn't live steam!) - it's more authentic because it makes the other locomotive unnecessary. Electric museums can accomplish the same thing... even Dummy Thomas can pull North Shore cars! Authenticity is also blown by the fact that the train goes backwards half its journey. A loop would be a real win here, but I know of precious few museums with a workable setup. I wonder if IRM's interurban train can get around its loop. Now, 100,000 in four years, that's ... 25,000 people in a single weekend!?? How on earth do you manage that logistically? Most railway museums I know of (including IRM) seem geared for trickle-in business, and not sized for carnival crowds. Parking ain't there, boarding ain't there... how do you do it? How many trains a day do you run? How long does the average family stay on the premises? How do you handle parking?

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Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue May 06, 2008 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Day Out With Thomas: A Consumer's View
Part of the reason I posted this blog posting in the first place was to show the parents' perspective. I am willing to wager that, out of 100 parents/parental couples, maybe one might have actually been able to tell the difference, or even cared, whether Thomas was a real steamer or a movie prop. I think there's a universal sense with any parents with any intelligence that ANY performance of ANY kind aimed at little kids--be it anything Disney, Hannah Montana, Bob the Builder, Spongebob Squarepants On Ice, or a Beanie Babie Blockbuster--is going to come off contrived, fakey, hokey, cornball, and packed with the potential to induce fatal eye-rolling. The incredibly rare ones that don't--say, some performances by the Muppets, for example, or a spectacularly well-done Santa or magician--become treasures of a lifetime. To quote the sibling that sent it to me in the first place: "I think the post is mostly about her kid and her own ambivalence and the ridiculous position we find ourselves in as parents (what do you mean, you're frightened? ENJOY YOURSELF, GODDAMNIT! I had this experience the first time we took baby [name] to the beach, and he was scared of the water and itchy in the sand, and all he wanted to do was run up and down a ramp to the boardwalk. Every day. All week. For this we drove 4 hours? There's a ramp at the drugstore, for craps' sake. You could at least have the decency to get tired so you sleep at freaking NIGHT, but no!"