Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona?

I see that everyone is totally confused about the remaining 20" gauge engines. All three abandoned at the Coronado mine were brought down in March 1990. A helicopter was not used. They cut a new road in and brought them down by truck, one at a time. The face of the Coronado incline is now scared by a road switch backing back and forth to the top. We made the first exploration trip ourselves back in 1967 and were the first to actually identify the correct Porter numbers stamped into various parts. We also verified that there were 3 engines rather than some published articles saying 2. At the time the AZ State Parks Dept. was planning to bring the engines down by helicopter for display at various state park museums around AZ. One was to go to the museum in Tucson, one to the mining museum in Jerome and I'm not sure about the 3rd engine. They asked our AZ Chapter NRHS for advise, and Sheldon & I and a friend made the trip with the State man. In Globe we picked up a member of the Seabees who was to plan a way to haul them out. At Morenci a PD man with his son drove us across the pit to get to the base of the incline for the hike up to the engines. To make a long story short, the Seabees submitted a bid to the state. All they wanted was to get enough money to pay for food and fuel for the training exercise. The state baulked, and nothing got done. At that time any heavy lift helicopters were busy in Vietnam and I think the Seabees also planned to cut a road in.

Anyway, here is the roster of the engines now on display here in AZ. All published rosters (including in Myrick's book) are incorrect. And all Internet rosters everyone was referring to are in error too.

Longfellow Copper Mining Co. #2 (Arizona Copper Co. #2) 0-4-2T Porter #507 7/1882 8x14 Converted to 0-4-0T and eventually moved to top of Coronado Incline. Abandoned until March 1990. Cosmetically restored and now on display at the AZ Mineral & Mining Museum in downtown Phoenix near the state capitol.

Detroit Copper Co. #2 0-4-0T Porter #814 3/1887 7x12 Now displayed at Adobe Mountain RR Museum and Desert RR Park NW of Phoenix by the Sahuaro Central RR Heritage Preservation Society. (Maricopa Live Steamers are not involved, although they have their track in the park.)

Arizona Copper Co. #5 0-4-4T Porter #920 8/1888 9 1/2 x 14. Converted to 0-4-0T and moved to top of Coronado Incline. Abandoned until March 1990. Cosmetically restored and now on display in Morenci.

Arizona Copper Co. #7 0-4-4T Porter #1651 2/1896 10x14. Converted to 0-4-0T and moved to top of Coronado Incline. Abandoned until March 1990. Donated to museum in Safford, AZ with plans to restore to operating condition. Engine was completely taken apart and determined not restorable. Now stored in disassembled condition. Not on public view.

Arizona Copper Co. #8 0-4-4T Porter #1735 3/1897 10x14. On display across from depot in Clifton, AZ.

Feel free to edit if you want to post to the Preservation site. I'm giving you the long story and everyone probably wants to know where they can be seen now.

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri May 09, 2008 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona?
Okay, folks. Gas is expensive, especially in off-roading Jeep Cherokees, and Arizona is hot and dry. Help us out here. A number of 20" gauge steamers, most/all Porter-built 0-4-4T's, operated on the Coronado RR around Clifton/Metcalf, Arizona. I have seen documentation and photos that a number of them survived abandoned on a hillside/hilltop above Clifton into the 1980s. I recall Conrad's Steam Loco Directory of North America telling me that three survived on the hillside while one was stuffed and mounted in Clifton's main plaza. According to SteamLocomotive.com, all the ones I have seen photos of as abandoned relics--2, 5, and 7--were eventually hauled down for display at Maricopa Live Steamers in Phoenix (though I can't find a photo on their website), the town plaza in Morenci, and a community park in Safford, AZ, respectively. Furthermore, it says #8 is the one in Clifton. SteamLocomotive.info reports that #9 is in Clifton, #4 is in Phoenix, #5 in Morenci/Clifton, and #3 and #8 are STILL on the mountain. David Myrick's authoritative Railroads of Arizona series, Vol. 3, 1983, says #2 abandoned, #4 to Arizona Museum in Phoenix (backing up .Info above), 5 and 7 abandoned, and 8 went on display in Clifton in 1937. Is there anyone out there with more authoritative information? Can I assume that no locos are really still left abandoned on the mountain? Can I trust that there are some possible corrections to the website indexes pending?

Author:	Brian Norden [ Fri May 09, 2008 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona?
As I recall, one or more of the mountain top locomotives were removed by the National Guard and a helicopter for one of the preservation groups. I know someone who should know, but probably does not read this board. Probably by next week I may have more information.

Author:	Dougvv [ Sat May 10, 2008 5:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona?
If I recall correctly, we discussed this about two years ago on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. Doug vV

Author:	steaminfo [ Sat May 10, 2008 8:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona?
I would really like to update steamlocomotive.info's database for these locomotives as I'm pretty sure what we have is out-of-date/inaccurate. Doug

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat May 10, 2008 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona?
Quote: If I recall correctly, we discussed this about two years ago on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. Well, forgive me, but I wasn't around for that conversation. <:-) For the benefit of my drivers, and apparently also Doug of SteamLoco.info, could you direct us to that discussion via a link? Pretty please? UPDATE: I just spent an hour searching the NGDF under a variety of relevant terms (Clifton, Metcalf, Coronado, etc.), and came up with little more than confirmation that there are no more locos still up on top of the mountain. There still seems to be confusion as to which loco is where, bringing us back full circle to my original questions. It seems there may be two in Phoenix, one at a museum and one at the Maricopa Live Steamers?

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Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25262	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Brian Norden [ Sat May 10, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Abandoned 20" 0-4-4T's in Arizona? -- answers
My correspondent (Stan at Coronado Scale Models in Phoenix) came through and I have the following to share: Quote: I see that everyone is totally confused about the remaining 20" gauge engines. All three abandoned at the Coronado mine were brought down in March 1990. A helicopter was not used. They cut a new road in and brought them down by truck, one at a time. The face of the Coronado incline is now scared by a road switch backing back and forth to the top. We made the first exploration trip ourselves back in 1967 and were the first to actually identify the correct Porter numbers stamped into various parts. We also verified that there were 3 engines rather than some published articles saying 2. At the time the AZ State Parks Dept. was planning to bring the engines down by helicopter for display at various state park museums around AZ. One was to go to the museum in Tucson, one to the mining museum in Jerome and I'm not sure about the 3rd engine. They asked our AZ Chapter NRHS for advise, and Sheldon & I and a friend made the trip with the State man. In Globe we picked up a member of the Seabees who was to plan a way to haul them out. At Morenci a PD man with his son drove us across the pit to get to the base of the incline for the hike up to the engines. To make a long story short, the Seabees submitted a bid to the state. All they wanted was to get enough money to pay for food and fuel for the training exercise. The state baulked, and nothing got done. At that time any heavy lift helicopters were busy in Vietnam and I think the Seabees also planned to cut a road in. Anyway, here is the roster of the engines now on display here in AZ. All published rosters (including in Myrick's book) are incorrect. And all Internet rosters everyone was referring to are in error too. Longfellow Copper Mining Co. #2 (Arizona Copper Co. #2) 0-4-2T Porter #507 7/1882 8x14 Converted to 0-4-0T and eventually moved to top of Coronado Incline. Abandoned until March 1990. Cosmetically restored and now on display at the AZ Mineral & Mining Museum in downtown Phoenix near the state capitol. Detroit Copper Co. #2 0-4-0T Porter #814 3/1887 7x12 Now displayed at Adobe Mountain RR Museum and Desert RR Park NW of Phoenix by the Sahuaro Central RR Heritage Preservation Society. (Maricopa Live Steamers are not involved, although they have their track in the park.) Arizona Copper Co. #5 0-4-4T Porter #920 8/1888 9 1/2 x 14. Converted to 0-4-0T and moved to top of Coronado Incline. Abandoned until March 1990. Cosmetically restored and now on display in Morenci. Arizona Copper Co. #7 0-4-4T Porter #1651 2/1896 10x14. Converted to 0-4-0T and moved to top of Coronado Incline. Abandoned until March 1990. Donated to museum in Safford, AZ with plans to restore to operating condition. Engine was completely taken apart and determined not restorable. Now stored in disassembled condition. Not on public view. Arizona Copper Co. #8 0-4-4T Porter #1735 3/1897 10x14. On display across from depot in Clifton, AZ. Feel free to edit if you want to post to the Preservation site. I'm giving you the long story and everyone probably wants to know where they can be seen now. Some minor editing was done.

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