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| Antique Signal Question... https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25489 |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Antique Signal Question... |
Here are a few questions for you signal historians. Which museums (if any) have examples of pre-1920 Block and Interlocking signals that are preserved? My specific area of interest is signaling devices introduced between roughly 1870 and 1910. Two types of signals of the greatest interest to me are the Hall Magnetic Disc Signal variants produced by the Hall Signal Company and the Banner or clockwork signals produced by Union Switch and Signal. Also, what information on these signals is still available and has anyone attempted to replicate these signals for historical posterity? |
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| Author: | Raymond Dewley [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
I would suggest starting here - patent seach on Google to help start filing in the blanks and then others may join in with some info. The USPTO.gov searchable website only goes back so far - Google goes back further. http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en http://www.google.com/patents?q=Hall+Si ... ch+Patents I worked at a museum years ago that had complete block signals, but I had minimal contact with them on on a maint. / tech. level. I recall they uses the large glass relays. Today I work with "icecube" relays for things I build at work for testing. Compared the them, these signal relays were more like icebergs... on the oder of 6 -8" cubed. Ray |
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| Author: | Warren [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
The B&O Museum in Baltimore has a Hall"banjo" signal. Been a while since I've been there,but if memory serves me right, it's complete with the standard and I think it was a Reading Company item. |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
They still have the Hall "banjo" signals. Fortunately I do not believe that they were affected by the roof failure. I've checked the patent searches-some of the information is a bit limited as not all documents have been digitally imaged, I think that the Hall disc signals at the B&O are probably the most complete set left. They are mounted on the mast as a home and distant signal combination. I believe that you are correct about them being Reading signals. I wonder if any of the older clockwork or US&S banner signals have survived. The probability is low, but as we all know, a lot of stuff got squirreled away over the years. |
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| Author: | kevin kohls [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
Alan: First, let me say that RR signals are one of the most unappreciated components of the RR landscape. Look at your local RR museum for their signal collection: I bet it is either laying on the scrap pile, or is rusting away somewhere out back. With that said, here are some answers. Banjo signals or correctly Disc signals: The Smithsonian had one on display, the B&O Museum, the RR Museum of PA, I know of three or more in a personal collection, and at least two have been sold recently at auction. There is a very rare US&S at the Orange County RR in California (I have never seen it). Clockwork signals: I know of three that exist: They are all from the New Haven RR and look more like a switch stand with a lamp on top. One is at the Smithsonian, one in a personal collection, and one at a museum in NJ. There might be others. I have never seen the version with the blinds. (Looks like venetian blinds). The US Patent site has many patents for them: Go to the Home page and under Search type in Class 246. There is a huge list of items and you will have to read thru them. Click on the letter 'P" to view the patent. You may have to download a program to view them, it is free. Start clicking on numbers and you will have many, many, many evenings of fun! Kevin Kohls |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
Your comment about signals at most railroad museums either being in the scrap pile or hidden away is spot on. At the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum, we probably had the largest collection in the Southern United States on display. The three signals that we had wired were our upper quad semaphore, the GRS three aspect signal head and the GRS two aspect dwarf. The three aspect signal and semaphore were set up so that guests could see the signals working. We also have a GRS NX CTC machine from CT Tower and an older model board from another tower displayed. We also have two mechanical interlocking machines stored. One is a Saxby and Farmer machine that is sitting in a large trailer and the other is a small machine that controlled a drawbridge interlocking. Problem is that no one can remember where we put it. As for the Hall Magnetic Disc Signals, I will have to ask David Dunn about them if I see him again at ARM. He and I had an interesting discussion last year at the ARM convention. I think that from a historical perspective, it would be worthwhile for someone with an interest in these antique signals to build working replicas so that the public and other railroad people can understand their place in history. Maybe I can get David to let me crack one open to make the required notes and drawings to do a project like that. |
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| Author: | phil [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
IRM has an entire signal garden and most of them work. I cannot name them but there are a couple dozen different types. Our signal dept has acquired three different banjo type crossing signals that i can think of and they are operational at crossings on the property for a small gallery of the collection see the IRM website memner photo gallery http://www.irm.org/gallery/SIGNALS |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
Edaville RR on Cape Cod, Mass. used a varied collection of slightly more modern than "Banjo" signals to protect their main line, at least in 1980 and '91. |
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| Author: | cwylde [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
Orange Empire has a banjo signal displayed in its signal garden along with 19 total signal types operating and on display. Many can be actuated by a push-button and the kids love it! Sadly, the banjo is not operational. Our member Ron Beach has a bunch of information on it. PM me and I'll get you contact information. |
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| Author: | cwylde [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
http://gsee.sdf-us.org/signals/photos/html/index.html Here is a trip through our signal garden. It is a bit outdated. The banjo has been painted and relocated since these pics. |
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| Author: | Randolph R. Ruiz [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
Thanks for the link to the OERM signal collection. I had a couple of questions. Were Banjos used in California? I am used to thinking that the Southern Pacific's earliest signals were either manually operated Train Order semaphores, or semaphore block signals that went back to the 1904 installation between Oakland and Port Costa. Due to the multiple tracks, I think most if not all of this initial 1904 installation used signal bridges. I was also interested in the background on your "locomotive-style" automatic warning bell. Where did it come from? I have seen photos of these mounted on timber posts. What I have seen indicates the SP started installing bells such as this before WWI. Although some lasted for much longer, I believe the SP began replacing them with automatic flagmen (wig-wags) in the 20s. Any experts on the development of signals on the SP? |
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| Author: | cwylde [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
The warning bell I can answer. It was on the SP Santa Ana branch line. I believe it is from the 20's or earlier. I am not a signals guru and will have to defer to the OERM Signals crew. You can contact them through the website. |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Disc or Banner Signals in the West... |
I don't know whether they were used out here. They (Hall and later US&S ) began producing disc signals in the 1870s. Some were wire operated, but most were electromagnetic signals that operated off the track circuit. The US&S disc signals were widely used on the Cincinnati Southern Railway and were installed en mass on that railway's Third Subdivision: Danville, Kentucky to Oakdale, Tennessee in the 1880s. |
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| Author: | o anderson [ Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
A good view of IRM's signal display can be seen in this YouTube tour, with tour guides Bob Kutella and Jim Pechous. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=RatjsMb7nE8 |
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| Author: | phil [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antique Signal Question... |
the signal garden we have at IRM is set as a fixed display, however several of our signals are not in the display as they are on the railroad, and functional. |
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