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Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
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Author:  PRRK4s [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
This from the Meadville, Pa. newsaper from late last month. Just made aware to me today:

http://www.meadvilletribune.com/local/l ... 35104.html

Hmm, wonder if CSX will want to grab it out of the building it is housed in now in McKees Rocks, Pa.

....Gary
Author:  steamfan779 [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Good Luck to the Meadville folks if they can get 643. Many other groups have tried and many folks who had the money including Steamtown have tried for this locomotive in years past. The price tag of 750K is going to be one the owner will not come down on and don't let the owner fool you into thinking you can fire up the locomotive tomorrow to get it running either. Its out of tube time and was rebuilt before the new rules went into effect so the 15 year will be needed at least.

Also expect the dealings to be he'll lead you down the path that you'll get the locomotive but pull out at the last second only leaving you holding the bag with all of the money you have spent in prepartion and hopes of getting the locomotive. I would expect this locomotive not to move anytime soon but I have been proven wrong before.

Yes I'm one of those folks who spent over 2 years of time never to come out ahead and at the last minute to have Glenn Campbell stop returning phone calls or he would tell me the some story his board would not vote on it. Only to find out he could not produce the name of the board member or the party who was upset.

I know many folks and groups with good intentions have tried to get the locomotive including the Carnegie Museum but the owner does not want to part with his trophey. He has claimed to many folks who want to see it run that he is willing to let it go but when the money comes around he runs and hides and does not return phone calls at all.

So the moral of this story is buyer beware and go in to this with caution.

SMH
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
This may be a dorky question, but is the Glenn Campbell , repeatedly mentioned with this locomotive, country singer Glenn Campbell?
Author:  steamfan779 [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
This Glenn Campbell is not the country singer. Just a person who lives in the greater Pittsburgh area who has owned the locomotive for about 20 years.

If you look through the back issues of trains around the late 80's early 90's you'll find copies of the rebuild through the Sterns family who is the true folks who rebuilt this locomotive. Close to a million was spent only to have Mr. Sterns die of a heart attack leaving the locomotive only to have 1 static fire-up and a group that had no one left to lead them on to the locomotive ever seeing the High Iron.

Right now the locomotive is in a controlled state of rusting away again.

SMH
Author:  Onder [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
How old is the good man? Perhaps he
will pass on before the engine is
unrestorable.
Author:  steamfan779 [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Glenn Campbell is in his mid 60's.

SMH
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
steamfan779 wrote:
Glenn Campbell is in his mid 60's. So one would hope the law of averages might get him.

SMH


SMH -

Those of us in our mid-60's hope that the "law of averages" isn't coming real soon!

Les
Author:  John D [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
From a preservation perspective, I start to get uneasy, thinking this situation (and locomotive) could go the way of Dick Jensen and his beautiful 4-6-2. In this day and age it's probably not practical to see this engine operating again (given the cost to rebuild, the impact of the weight on trackage, and whose tracks would it run on?), but I do feel uneasy that the long-term outlook of this engine may seem murky.
Author:  Tim Botti [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Quite honestly, knowing the offers (at least 4 serious ones) that have been declined in the eleventh hour previously, both from operators and museums, I'd be very surprised to see anyone else getting hold of the 643.

In the meantime it's somewhat safe and protected, at least as well as can be expected in McKee's Rocks. The local police dept. has been helpful in keeping an eye on it, and a few of the officers pledged to help turn some wrenches if she ever gets out. Luckily, nothing particuraly valuable has been stolen, thanks to the company who owns the property she's stored on doing a good job of keeping most people away from it.

The realist in me says it will never run again due to the operating headaches that would come with running such a large locomotive on today's railroads, the cynic in me says it'll slowly be reclaimed by the earth where it stands, or with some help from the local scrap dealer. I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong.
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
A real brute. Here's a link to a photo from Doug's steamlocomotive.info Web site. If Mr. Campbell has only owned the locomotive since 1983, whom did he purchase her from?

http://steamlocomotive.info/onephoto.cf ... submit=800

Stephen
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Unbelievably, this loco was kept by the Bessemer & Lake Erie in their roundhouse (along with their 0-10-2 #604 and 2-8-0 #154) until 1983, when it was sold to Mr. Campbell.
Author:  Howard P. [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Is this a recent pic, taken where the engine is currently?

A tender with a full load of coal. Just great. And the jacket still on, complete with insulation... At least the stack is covered.

I don't think this one's going to have a happy ending. At the very least, it's not going to boil water ever again. This one missed its best chance, in 1995 (Steamtown).

What is WITH these guys like Campbell? (sigh...)

Howard P.
Pessimistville, CT
Author:  steamfan779 [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Its hard to believe after 25 years of ownership she has never rode the rails on her own power. She was built in 2/44 by the Baldwin Locomotive works. I know a few folks who live in the Greater Pittsburgh area would be more then willing to help out on the locomotive if ever came up for a rebuild. Without the purchase price your looking at around 300K to get her back on the road but adding 100K for oh my's and I didn't think that needed to be fixed would make it a 400K rebuild. So on to the rest of the story.

The sticking point was control of the locomotive. The owner could not understand that in order to apply for grants and other state or federal money the ownership issue has to be addressed and that one group could not apply for the money while the other still had control. Comes into a conflict of interest when your talking 501c3 status. Even a lease agreement gets sticky on applying for grants as it could be view as why are you putting money into someone elses locomotive.

I feel bad that the locomotive has potential but I would Agree with Tim the weight of 74,000lbs per axle makes it a heavy beast to run on any short line or small railroad. Your talking your bridges have to be E80 or E75 rating to handle the load.

After all of the years spent I feel if it would have gone any where in the Pittsburgh area it should have been the Carnegie Science Center. I know they proposed to go as far as automation of the locomotive so the wheels would turn and you could see the locomotive move.

Maybe that is not what we want to see in the steam community but it would be the best for the locomotive long term on keeping it looking great and for people to see a 2-10-4 that help make the Steel Industry in the Pittsburgh area.

So lets hope if this goes to Meadville they possibly look at running the locomotive again as it should get its chance in the sun. So we'll see and I hope I have been proved wrong.

SMH
Author:  Rob Gardner [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bessemer & Lake Erie 2-10-4 #643 to MOVE?
Steve, Tim and all,

Boy, you neglect RYPN for a few days and you never know what salatious (SP?) tidbits of RR gosip will pop (poop) up!

I'm sure the four of us would love to finally have an opportunity to see a fire get lit in that enormous firebox. I have a permanent scar on one of my fingers from one volunteer work session in Pittsburgh the last time a serious attempt was made to actually fire her up. This was back in 1996 or so prior to the new regs. There was absolutely NOTHING but "You Know Who" standing between us and seeing her finally run under her own power. We had sufficient leadership present to make sure everything was done right, too.

God bless the folks in Meadville. I'm sure the old EL infrastructure east of Meadville can now handle an occassional trip or two or three each year with 643. Lord knows an awful of federal tax payer dollars have been spent on ties, ballast and CWR to handle two NS trains a day plus a few locals from the WNY&P, but NS will undoubtedly block any attempts to run 643 since the Southern Tier is still ultimately their's and subject to their no-steam policy.

Sorry for laying on the heavy layer of sarcasm. I just couldn't resist.

Rob Gardner
Author:  superheater [ Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Misinformation Alert
The owner could not understand that in order to apply for grants and other state or federal money the ownership issue has to be addressed and that one group could not apply for the money while the other still had control.

That is NOT true. A very obvious refuting example of this would be how the L&WV Chapter of the NRHS is raising money for the benefit of the Boston & Maine 3713, which is in the Steamtown collection.
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