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A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25866		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  PJS [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Baltimore to York?

http://www.inyork.com/ci_10263927?source=most_viewed
Author:  PaulWWoodring [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
I'm beginning to wish I'd saved my money and left it in Jersey (just think how much more I could have done by now if I'd have bought Microsoft stock at the time instead<g>). This is what happens when museum management changes twice after you make a deal to bring a locally significant piece from a different railroad to a museum not devoted to that railroad. I still hope it can be saved - somewhere.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Just the individual history of this locomotive makes her worth saving. I'm glad these people have started to clean her up and make a first good effort at giving the engine a chance. B&O Museum should be glad to see her going somewhere other than the junk heap. Being full of "old mattresses and hypodermic needles" tells you something about the conditions in which she's kept today. I wonder what her guts have been stripped of?
Author:  Mr. Ed [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
I hope they can move it over the rails, because moving her on a lowboy will be a lot more than $50K. I thought the video was well done except fo the sound effects. They would have been better off just talking over the movement rather than put a steam loco sound over it.

Later!
Mr. Ed
Author:  bbunge [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
So where does one find a replacement GG1 pan? Or do you just build a replica out of steel tubing and wire?

Bob
Author:  RussSwinnerton [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
This is the second time I've seen a post like this in the forums I frequent. I'll tell you guys the same as I told them. Not going to happen. Ever. I was the last person to move that GG1 by rail and after inspecting it up close, I can tell you that it's not going anywhere by rail unless it's on a heavy duty flatcar. It's also not going anywhere by road unless it's cut up. It's too tall and too heavy and too long. There also were no GG1s in York (No catenary). If they want to do something like this, they'd be better off finding an old caboose and painting it up "MA&PA". I think this is a case of a couple of guys who got a wild hair up their rear ends and don't understand the logistics of this. To get it from Baltimore to York, it'd have to come on a flatcar, which means 2 cranes at both ends of the trip, plus it would have to be trucked from the railyard in York to the site and craned again onto it's track. (Mucho expensivo) Then restored. I would conservatively estimate $700,000 to 1 Million to complete this. It really gets to me when I see things like this. The best bet for this GG1 is a private investor. Barring that, I would think that it'll be razorblades in the next couple of years as it seems that the B&O isn't really interested.
Russ
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Just to play Devil's Advocate here without having to resort to smoking the same stuff that the chaps in York seem to be ingesting:

I understand and am willing to concede to/abide with a Class One's restrictions on non-roller-bearing equipment.

Would there be any way to temporarily or permanently convert a GG1 to roller bearings? Perhaps have someone (Henry Ford Museum?) fabricate a set that the RRs would accept, and retrofit any G's planned for movement?

Or are the issues with moving a GG1 related to something other than the bearings or motor gears?
Author:  Howard P. [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Last time I looked, GG1s had big old Timken roller bearings on all axles. "issues with moving" one on own wheels? Probably that 99% of railroads don't want to be bothered with "old junk" regardless of the bearing type. One thing that hasn't changed in 40 years, is that it's far easier to simply say "NO" to handling this stuff. Can't get fired that way, either.

Howard P.
4801 Quill Drive
Double-End, CT
Author:  RussSwinnerton [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
It's not even that the Railroads care that much about the roller bearings (which it has), but the cost of moving it would be a price that would make it worth the railroad's while. Someone like the Henry Ford Museum seems to have deep enough pockets to make it happen, but a bunch of guys from York...Nope.

Another issue is cracked frames. The big thing the big RRs will say no to is that. They say it makes it unsafe to move. That's the main reason the Gs were taken out of service in the first place. Now consider how many freeze/thaw cycles the '76 has been through in Baltimore. Not good.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it preserved, but also consider that there are many other GG1s saved and in various stages of restoration. Do we really need another when something more historically "needy" needs a home and work done? If these guys from York want to see this through, more power to 'em, but this won't end well, mark my words.

Russ

Actually, if they want to see it preserved because it's a GG1 (As opposed to wanting something to play with in York), why don't they work with the B&O to do a cosmetic restoration there? That would make more sense.
Author:  thirdrail [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Roller bearings have nothing to do with the problems here. But, I am sure the brake system would not pass inspection. Wonder when it was last cleaned, oiled, and tested? How many holes are there in the brake pipes? How many more will there be if pressure is put into the lines?

Then there are the cracks in the frames... "G"s" are beautiful machines in their element, but there is nowhere they can run anymore, and they look out of place without catenary above them.
Author:  Afboone [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Here is a link when they moved the GG-1 here in New Jersey. The folks are cosmetically restoring it. One of the people said a 7 in crack developed in a frame spot above one of the trucks! >>>YIKES

http://n01jd1.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... id=1256295
Author:  bbunge [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
RussSwinnerton wrote:
Actually, if they want to see it preserved because it's a GG1 (As opposed to wanting something to play with in York), why don't they work with the B&O to do a cosmetic restoration there? That would make more sense.


We should at least, IMHO, give them credit for getting the museum to move it to behind a fence. From the photos I saw and from what someone else said, it is currently inside the fence beside the restoration building.

Bob
Author:  Schuylkill Valley [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Question, Could you even restore a GG-1 to operating condistions?

Len
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Schuylkill Valley wrote:
Question, Could you even restore a GG-1 to operating conditions?


Use the search function here. It's been discussed to death here.

Short version: Supposedly, two still have transformers: 4800 and one of the two that was at Leatherstocking NRHS in NY State, which came from the Wilmington & Western (Amtrak 4934/PRR 4917). 4800 is not an option--cracked transformer coils & cases. 4917: debatable. Alternately, someone could create an electronics/rectifier package or re-wire a G to run on something like 600 V DC (isn't that what IRM has?).

But once that's done--then what? No railroad with overhead (Amtrak, Metro-North, etc.) will let a G out on the main with those frames, bearings, etc. If you were to hook up a G to the power at Rockhill, Union, etc, the lights would dim all over the county as it tried to inch forward (I exaggerate only slightly--it was bad enough with the Liberty Liner at Rockhill).

So: you restore it, then what? Are you offering a place for it to run? Buying one of those electrified mine railroads out west?
Author:  Tim Botti [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A different GG-1 on the move (someday)?
Perhaps I'm crazy too, but I always thought a fascinating museum exhibit would be to recreate the crash of the GG-1 in Union Station. Particuraly since the locomotive in question is that one. Granted, putting the exhibit together at Union Station may send an undesirable message to travellers, but maybe at Baltimore or elsewhere. Realistically, perhaps on a slightly smaller scale as well. With so many GG-1's saved I simply think this would be a unique way to showcase what happened.

I'd imagine it could be setup so that the locomotive wouldn't need to be cut apart, if enough space permitted, and I can guaruntee having that big nose pointing down at visitors would surely be a "wow" moment.

I'm sure some purists would want my head, but didn't they do something like that in England to exhibit the WWII days?
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