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| moving Southern 1401 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25873 |
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| Author: | Dave Lewandoski [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | moving Southern 1401 |
To the Smithsonian in 1961: http://cgi.ebay.com/REAL-PHOTO-SOUTHERN ... dZViewItem |
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| Author: | Kevin Gillespie [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
I look at that picture with very mixed emotions. Yes, it's the only way a PS4 got saved. But with 2-8-0 #401 about to join the land of the living, soon to be joined by 2-8-0 #630, and now 2-8-0 #154, it's very sad that one steam engine most SR fans would like to see "on the road again" is trapped inside the masonry of the Museum of American History never to feel the heat of a fire on her grates again. |
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| Author: | junior [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
And just where would this engine run if it were restored? Some tourist line doing 20 mph at best, hardly living up to its potential? I think it is the best preservation route that could have been taken for such a rare locomotive. |
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| Author: | DavidKaplan [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
Engine 1401 has probably been viewed and seen in the Smithsonian by more people in the US and abroad than any other locomotive in history. So in that respect, it has had a great impact and well fulfilled the role it was saved for. On the other hand, if had been spared and not sent to the Smithsonian, it would have surely been restored by the Southern for it's steam program in the 1960s or later. But would it have been spared otherwise? Probably not. No other SR steam locos were saved purposefully. All 2-8-0s and one famous 2-8-2 were saved only because they were purchased by other railroads. In the early fifties SR, like NYC, could not wait to scrap everything steam they could get their hands on. If it were out of the Smithsonian today, it couldn't run on many mainlines but it could run at TVRM and south on the old C of G. Transporting it to Chattanooga wouldn't be cheap but I'm sure the money could be found somewhere. That would be a project worthy of support in my eyes. But, all this is mostly just conjecture and "could have beens". I just would love the opportunity for the engine to come out of "storage" and stretch her legs for a couple of years minimum. I know the museum was basically built around the engine and removing it is probably cost prohibitive. If only someone of Bill Gates' resources liked Ps4s as much as many of us living in the South.....That could make a difference. |
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| Author: | davew833 [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
I wonder what kind of shape #1401 is/was in mechanically when she was 'entombed'. She's certainly impressive cosmetically up close-- looks like new! |
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| Author: | Stephen S. Syfrett [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
Except for the cosmetics, you have a virtually identical locomotive laid up in Atlanta at Southeastern Railway Museum...Atlanta & West Point Ry. 290, late of New Georgia Railroad fame. I would think that if there was a real strong desire to have such a locomotive at TVRM an arrangement would have been worked out by now. As it stands, 290 is inoperable and TVRM acquired that big 4-6-2 (CN or CP?) in trade from Steamtown that will eventually fill that operational void. If 290 was restored it would never be made to look like a Southern Ps4. That has already been considered...many years ago...and was soundly put down...on a corporate level (or so the story goes) when SR wanted to borrow 290 and make her into a cosmetically similar, green-painted pseudo Ps4 for use in the Steam Excursion Program. As much as I might like to see 1401 operate again, I could be happy to see 290 running full-out once again, and that is much more likely to happen. |
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| Author: | Canada Ron [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | TVRM x-CNR 4-6-2 5288 Blt 1919 |
Medium size engine, can't find the stats at the moment. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gillespie [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | CN Pacific at TVRM |
The locomotive in question is ex-CN 5288, and light Pacific. The plans are to kit bash her into a Southern PS2. |
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| Author: | Stephen S. Syfrett [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
It has been a long time since I looked at any photos of the CN locomotive...guess I thought she was bigger than she really is. Having a pseudo Ps2 will be nice, though. |
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| Author: | Andrew Durden [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
Stephen S. Syfrett wrote: It has been a long time since I looked at any photos of the CN locomotive...guess I thought she was bigger than she really is. Having a pseudo Ps2 will be nice, though. You are correct sir. 5288 is about halfway in between a Ps2 and Ps4. She more closely resembles a Ps4. She is very similar to Dick Jensen's 4-6-2, which the Southern also tried to acquire at one point. Andrew |
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| Author: | Newriver400 [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
"No other SR steam locos were saved purposefully." NOT true... Southern purposefully saved 1509 in Atlanta (Pegram Shop/North Ave. roundhouse goat, see http://www.srmduluth.org/photos/maud2.jpg) and 154 in Knoxville (see http://www.southern154.com). The 542 was put on display at Tanglewood Park after being purchased by Forsyth County from Southern. The others were indeed saved by being sold second-hand to shortlines or industries. They are: 107, 385, 401, 630, 722, 1643, and THE Famous (that's 4501 to those of you in Rio Linda), and then there's the alleged 2-6-0 in Castro-land. The 5288 may get a nice Southern dress and makeover, but that will not make her a Ps-anything. Size-wise, she is a bit smaller than a Ps4 and somewhat larger than a Ps2. If anything, she might get classed Ps6 (Southern did have some P5's as I recall). |
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| Author: | Canada Ron [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | CNR 5288 J7B 4-6-2 x Canadian Government Railways 40000 lbs |
I think the apprx engine weight is 275000 lbs .It was retired 1961 |
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| Author: | Hillcrest [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
I've often wondered as to the actual mechanical condition of the 1401. I spent an hour or so studying it about 25 years ago, and it's true, cosmetically it looks brand new. I also noticed, IIRC, the tires and brakes didn't show any wear to speak of. Is there any record (there must be) showing how it was shopped for the display? Curiously, Dave |
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| Author: | wesp [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: moving Southern 1401 |
Doug Logan, a body mechanic that did some contract work on one of our streetcars in the early 1990s, was on the crew that prepared SR 1401 for display in the early 1960s. The engine was painted in the SR yard in Alexandria, VA by a crew from a local auto body shop just prior to the move on a lowboy to the museum. Doug had a team picture of the crew gathered around the finished engine. Unfortunately I've lost contact with Doug. His recollections would make great oral history. Most recently the engine was rolled a very short distance in reverse to a new position for America on the Move. I'm not sure what they used for power. I recall Bill Withuin saying the engine would not budge at first. Once they cleared out the dust and grit from the guard rail it moved just fine. Wesley |
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| Author: | Doug Debs 2472 [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 1401 near-mechanical-duplicate runs Labor Day weekend! |
Southern Pacific class P-8 and P-10 Pacifics are mechanically very similar to Southern Ps-4s. Both are based on the USRA heavy Pacific. Principal change is slightly smaller driving wheels (USRA heavy Pacific: 79"; Ps-4: 73", S.P. P-8 & P-10: 73-1/2") to better adapt the engine for heavier grades. S.P. had less restrictive clearances than Southern, so the steam dome, sand dome, smokestack, etc are about 1' higher on the S.P. engines. S.P. also pioneered use of longer-than-usual cylinder stroke to optimize the engine for heavier grades, so the cylinder dimensions differ a bit: 25" diameter x 30" stroke on S.P. P-8 and P-10, vs. 27" x 28" for Ps-4s. [At a later date I will post a full comparison of the two designs including drawings.] On Labor Day weekend 2008, Southern Pacific P-8 #2472 will be operating with a vintage S.P. (and a bit of W.P.) trainset on the reconstructed original transcontinental S.P. mainline through Niles Canyon. This features a 1+% grade and many curves - great for enjoying a big engine work at a speed (25-30mph) where you can really hear, see, and enjoy the engine and the ride! For more info, go to http://www.ncry.org or http://www.ggrm.org We will repeat this next spring with some new surprises, dates & details to be announced this fall. - Doug Debs |
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