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Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25948		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Sloan [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
http://www.herald-mail.com/?cmd=display ... ormat=html
Author:  tomgears [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
I bet she would look and sound really good stretching her legs on a certain stretch of track running West from Cumberland.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
tomgears wrote:
I bet she would look and sound really good stretching her legs on a certain stretch of track running West from Cumberland.


The word I have is that it's never gonna happen.

It seems that the recently-deceased "custodian" of 202 was good at talking, but not at making things happen, and that a lot of the blather spouted over the years has soured the actual prospects of any removal from Hagerstown.

I would sincerely love to be proven wrong--the prospect of 202 on the WMSR or WVC probably remains one of the simpler and greatest unrealized potential opportunities for rail preservation in North America today--but the more I talk to folks with the right connections, the more I realize that the disconnects appear too fundamental.
Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
Who actually OWNS 202? The City? A relative of the former custodian? It would seem the City has no real interest in the engine. Of course NS and CSX PR reps would say "no way" about operation; the reporter didn't ask the obvious question (to me at least) about/of WMSR.

Howard P.

who spent 10 yrs. in Hagerstown one summer....
Author:  John Bohon [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
The city owns 202. The deceased benefactor had returned her to the city before he passed if I remember correctly. The 202 was donated by WM with the stipulation that if it ever ran it could not get further than 50 miles from Hagerstown and had to be back in the city limits within 24 hours. The city is interested in the locomotive and just funded the beautiful paint job 202 is sporting. Were someone to try to take it Cumberland or Elkins I think there would be an uproar from a few about somebody else getting our locomotive. That may be especially true if it were to go to Cumberland. Unfortunately I see no end to this stalemate. Fortunately the engine is under conver. I have long hoped I would live long to see 202 run but I now doubt that will happen.

John Bohon
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
John Bohon wrote:
The 202 was donated by WM with the stipulation that if it ever ran it could not get further than 50 miles from Hagerstown and had to be back in the city limits within 24 hours.


Okay, we've all seen oddball donation stipulations. Well, okay, at least *I* have.

Does anybody think that such stipulations could be legally enforced today? CSX might be able to say whether or not 202 could be shipped over their lines, but blocking it from going to Elkins/Cumberland/Baltimore/wherever else?

I ask less out of concern for the particulars of WM 202 than I do for the long-reaching ramifications of other such past or future conditions, restrictions, etc.
Author:  superheater [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Donations with Conditions
The 202 was donated by WM with the stipulation that if it ever ran it could not get further than 50 miles from Hagerstown and had to be back in the city limits within 24 hours.

Any gratutitious transfer (donation) that has strings attached is folly. Forever will outlast any donor, so who enforces such a condition and what's the penalty?

Additionally, imposing any conditions or retaining any control over donated property will make the transfer defective from the IRS' viewpoint.

So if you donate something, donate without conditions or don't try to take a deduction on your 1040.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
Whoever has the desire and funding to awaken the locomotive should pursue it with the authorities. "It's not gonna happen" is the preface to a thousand things that finally do occur. Giving up at the beginning is the quickest road to failure.
Author:  Schuylkill Valley [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
here's a picture of 202 , I found this on the North East Rails Site.

Image

Here's another site with more pictures of 202.
http://american-rails-forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=9808

Len.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
Richard Glueck wrote:
Whoever has the desire and funding to awaken the locomotive should pursue it with the authorities. "It's not gonna happen" is the preface to a thousand things that finally do occur. Giving up at the beginning is the quickest road to failure.


I would be the first to agree--if someone comes up with an firm, workable plan, things might happen. And it's supposedly been done in the past.

But I was told 15+ years ago by then-officers of the Hagerstown NRHS/Roundhouse Museum that they had investigated the matters, and determined that the legal matters surrounding the loco and city pretty much precluded the possibilities, even of relocating 202 to the roundhouse while it was still standing. Among other things, I was told that the loco had been donated to "the children of Hagerstown," and that any efforts along the lines of removal from the park were being met with the moral equivalent of "You're stealing from CHILDREN!!!!!"

I've been told since that a multitude of minute details--many revolving around the lease of the loco for "restoration" by an individual, plus certain opinions by various legal counsels--have made the current 202 situation all but impossible for eventual operation elsewhere.

Yes, you with better resources may happily view this as a "line drawn in the sand" which I'm daring you to cross. Having seen the miracles pulled off in Cumberland, Belington, and Elkins, I seriously wouldn't put anything past the abilities of the folks out there. (Hey, is that a shipload of sand that they sold to the Saudis? <:-) )
Author:  DavidKaplan [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown, MD/Proposal to activate steamer/WM 202
Chances of this locomotive running and pulling a train on CSX or NS are probably slim to none and I emphasize NONE. It's best shot of operating anywhere would be on the Western Maryland Scenic. There it could run and even pull passengers.

Restoring a loco like this would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars minimum and require expertise and equipment probably not readily available in Hagerstown like it would be in Cumberland. I may be wrong on that but that's my assumption. Many have restored and run steam with a minimum of resources in the past.

If this town really wants to see their loco run again, it needs to help raise dollars for restoration and send it out of town. If shared with or partnered with a group like the WMSRR, the loco could be loaned temporarily or with some type of short or long term lease. Just because it leaves doesn't mean it cannot come back.

Here's another website with some up-to-date repaint photos:
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/85730

Also, if this loco is restored one day, would it now make more sense to re-convert it to coal?
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