| Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/ |
|
| SP 2355 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26156 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | Dave Lewandoski [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | SP 2355 |
In the park at Mesa, Arizona. The extra handrails and chain link fencing have been removed, but it is now surrounded by a tall black fence that obstructs viewing. The subject of recent debate, some want the locomotive moved near the highway in Mesa, while others want it moved to the museum at Chandler. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp-s2355csa.jpg |
|
| Author: | Randolph R. Ruiz [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
Still others may want to move it to a state in which it spent most of its operating history. |
|
| Author: | Randolph R. Ruiz [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
I had not noticed this article until now, but it looks like it is now public information that the Niles Canyon Railway is one of the parties interested in acquiring SP 2355. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/12/01/20081201mr-train1203.html As far as I know, the engine had no operating history in Arizona, and spent most of its life in California. The engine is fondly recalled by a couple of generations of children who grew up using the engine as playground equipment in their city's park. If the engine is cosmetically restored in Mesa, it will continue to serve as a park engine behind a fence. It not be under cover and children will not be able to play upon it. Doesn't this just forestall the day when the city once again has to face the decision of whether to spend more money to fix it up, or get rid of it? How much affection will the community feel towards this engine after being behind a fence for another 15 years? I understand others are interested in the engine as well, including the museum in Chandler. In the meantime, the Pacific Locomotive Association has begun to focus more closely on being able to put together trains appropriate for its former SP mainline in Niles Canyon. The group has been looking for a mid-sized SP steam engine such as this handsome ten-wheeler that could be used for regular operations. They don't seem to become available very often. Who do you think can offer the best home for this engine, and is how do we see to it that this becomes a factor in determining the engine's fate? |
|
| Author: | Jim Baker [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
To me, of course, the best place for 2355 would be here in Campo with its sister 2353. (2353 was the class engine for the T-31's). Since we can't afford that, Niles would probably be a great place for the '55. Both engines operated there. Niles Canyon was kind enough to give us a couple of photos of 2353 operating there in the 1940's. If we ever got 2353 running again, and 2355 was at Niles, maybe we could meet half-way some time and double head up Cuesta Grade out of San Luis Obispo! We recently had an inspection of 2353's boiler done, and were told that any repairs probably wouldn't be worthwhile. Three strikes against it: crown bar, keyhole shape, and several large patches already. It would be more cost-effective to build a whole new boiler. That is pretty much out of the question for us at this time. Now, assuming that 2355 has the same problems, maybe we could get together, and get two identical new boilers made. The cost for each should be significantly less. Jim Baker Steam Foreman, PSRM |
|
| Author: | wsflco [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
Sounds like another case of locals trying to save what they perceive as "their" locomotive. No doubt if it stays put no attempt will be made to interpret it's history, it will be another locomotive doomed to being just the "choo choo" in the park. This has happened time and time again. When a locomotive is deemed a liability, such as in this case, preservation groups step forward to act as stewards, only to have some local hobbyist complain. The preservation group's interest is used as a bargaining chip by the local fan to emphasis how "valuable" or "historic" their locomotive is. Not wanting to upset the locals, the municipality is obliged to spend taxpayer money for the fix-up. The end result is that the engine remains a liability, the asbestos gets removed (if anything is done at all), the locals lose interest, and the locomotive continues to be watered daily by the park lawn sprinklers. -Chris Allan |
|
| Author: | Randolph R. Ruiz [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
Quote: We recently had an inspection of 2353's boiler done, and were told that any repairs probably wouldn't be worthwhile. Three strikes against it: crown bar, keyhole shape, and several large patches already. It would be more cost-effective to build a whole new boiler. That is pretty much out of the question for us at this time. That is too bad. I never got to see this engine run. It seemed like a good sized machine for what you do. It kinda feels like everyone may need to just about count on losing money with steam engines. |
|
| Author: | FLO [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
I ran across the website for a citizen-led drive to raise money for 2355. I assume this is old news. Anything happening? Their website: http://www.saveourtrain.com/ |
|
| Author: | mikerowe [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
I get a bad taste in my mouth when i read posts like this, here and elsewhere, in which sanctimonious souls say, in essence, "We don't approve of what you are doing with XYZ locomotive; therefore you should give it to us because we can take better care of it than you can!" This smacks of railfan arrogance to me. The locomotive has been in Mesa for 50 years; where were you all of that time? Why the sudden interest, now that locals have launched a revitalization effort? Did the locals in Mesa ask for your help? Suppose I had a "better" idea for one of your locomotives, and I thought you ought to just give it to me because I am smarter about these things than you are. Would you just hand over your locomotive? Of course not. In fact, you would likely be madder than h**l. So go play with your own toys, guys, and leave the folks in Mesa alone! Mike |
|
| Author: | FLO [ Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
The most recent news piece I could find on the SP 2355 in Mesa is from April of this year. Apparently they have raised about half the money needed to move the loco. So they are making progress. Cool! Now if only the city would help out. http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa ... train.html |
|
| Author: | psa188 [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
Considering the locomotive is rusting away in a park, has suffered vandalism and is fenced off, I don't see any downside in letting PLA remove and restore it. All the better if it saves the city money. |
|
| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
psa188 wrote: Considering the locomotive is rusting away in a park, has suffered vandalism and is fenced off, I don't see any downside in letting PLA remove and restore it. All the better if it saves the city money. You know, of course, that you've just described most of the locomotives on display in parks and whatnot nationwide. Your "rusting away" description would be more apt if there weren't a local group raising funds to rehabilitate this loco. If Mesa decides that PSRM or someone else (hey, you know, the Arizona Railway Museum is MUCH closer than California....) is a better home for this loco, then they can make such arrangements themselves--donation, lease, whatever. Maybe PSRM should make an offer to trade a cosmetically-refurbished 2353 for the potentially-operable(?) 2355, assuming it passes a hydro/ultrasound? Just as with a museum of any sort, there's a responsibility of being a proper custodian of an artifact. While neglecting something or not giving it quite the TLC others deem appropriate is not exactly being a responsible custodian, neither is just getting rid of something when it becomes difficult or onerous to care for--be it a horse or an iron horse. Might PSRM be a better home? Maybe, but that's not for us to decide. It's for PSRM to demonstrate and Mesa to agree. |
|
| Author: | Harry Nicholls [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
The fact that the loco may have spent time in Calif is no guarantee that it did not spend time in other places including Mesa. Sorry, gang, you are wrong in thinking Mesa should give up the engine. The loco surely went through Mesa as it left the manufacturer, and to do so, meant it probably traveled SP home's route included Texas, New Mexico, ARIZONA ( Willcox, Benson, Tucson, Mesa, Tempe, Phoenix, and all the towns between Phoenix and Yuma, where it would enter California. It may also have worked in any of the towns for SP on its travels. Engines did work in locations other than their "home base" as they often were at another depot when the length of the trip was more than could be doubled back home in a work day. In addition, there is an old Law that says: "Thou Shalt Not Covet...Thy Neighbor's wife, .. thy Neighbor's Oxen,.. House,...nor anything that is his..." I believe it has been in effect for many years and has not been rescinded. I like the last suggestion of what do you have to offer in return? A swap or $$$? |
|
| Author: | Jim Baker [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
Speaking for myself, not PSRM, what we don't need right now is another rusting steam engine. I'd hate to see 2355 cut up, but I'd much rather spend the money it would cost to move 2355 to Campo on something of more immediate return. For example, the needed repair work on several of our coaches, several "almost operational" diesels (I know, it is heresy for the steam foreman to say, "diesel."), or to go towards the restoration of Coos Bay #11. If we were able to get a new boiler for 2353, she'd be ready to run with very little other work. We took 2353 out of the Fairgrounds in 1986. It would be hard for me to believe that after another 30 years sitting in a park that 2355 would be in better shape than 2353. 2355 operated for SP for about 45 years; it has been in the park in Mesa for about 60 years, even though, as far as I know, it didn't have much operational history in AZ. So, it has been in AZ, longer than anywhere else. I wish the people in Mesa good luck on saving it. If they can't, maybe move it to Chandler. And, I certainly would not object to it going back to "home rails" at Niles. Mesa has had it for 60 years, let them decide where it should go, if it does have to go. |
|
| Author: | p51 [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
wsflco wrote: Sounds like another case of locals trying to save what they perceive as "their" locomotive. Maybe that's because it IS their locomotive?mikerowe wrote: I get a bad taste in my mouth when i read posts like this, here and elsewhere, in which sanctimonious souls say, in essence, "We don't approve of what you are doing with XYZ locomotive; therefore you should give it to us because we can take better care of it than you can!" This smacks of railfan arrogance to me. The locomotive has been in Mesa for 50 years; where were you all of that time? Why the sudden interest, now that locals have launched a revitalization effort? Did the locals in Mesa ask for your help? Suppose I had a "better" idea for one of your locomotives, and I thought you ought to just give it to me because I am smarter about these things than you are. Would you just hand over your locomotive? Of course not. In fact, you would likely be madder than h**l. So go play with your own toys, guys, and leave the folks in Mesa alone! Well said, Mike. This kind of mindset has always bugged me as well.For example, St Louis has a MLW bi-polar, when it obvious never ran anywhere near there. Would it be more appropriate to display it, say, in Renton WA or somewhere along the Montana route it ran? Yeah, but it belongs to the St Louis museum. It's in halfway decent shape there, I'd rather it be away from it's former home rails that made into razor blades. That's the important part! |
|
| Author: | Dave [ Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP 2355 |
Museums have other rationale for their collections scope than geographic. St Louis is a transportation technology museum not limited to its home location. As such, they are free to legitimately collect examples of technology from anywhere they like provided it fits otherwise. We need to learn to pick the right tool to take measurements of different things.........and make sure we know what the right one is before commenting about it. Jim's comments make perfect sense, as usual......but I'm left to wonder about a technical thing, not a collections management thing: what's wrong with a keyhole boiler or crown bars? dave |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|