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 Post subject: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:03 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 1078
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
Apparently it has been a busy year at Virginia City, NV. The 29 (2-8-0) was returned to steam at the early part of summer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD3AU1gM3kA
The Grays who have been operating this railroad for a number of years also took delivery to two ex-Lackawanna cars from Green Bay (former Kettle Moraine). This line also expanded operations to American Flat on the new extension built by the V&T Commission.

Progress continues on the construction of a railroad between Carson City and Gold Hill, and apparently there will not be an interim railroad operation based out of Mound House. On August 26th two major reconstruction segments were bolted together at Scales. Some time back the Sierra Railroad was selected by the commission to be its tourist operator. I am not clear on the relationship the new V&T (commission) railroad will have with the old private one in Virginia City or with the State Railroad museum which is located in a shopping center area a few miles west of the end of reconstruction in Carson City. Meanwhile the commission owns a fleet of SP commuter cars sitting in Portola at the Western Pacific Museum - with an arrangement made with the FRRHS for some reconditioning (apparently funds have not been transferred to start this work). The V&T Commission has purchased McCloud River 2-8-2 #18 and it is in occasional service out of Oakdale California on the Sierra.
Can you say, COMPLICATED? Yes, but very interesting indeed.
O. Anderson

Here are some photos:
http://www.olvirginnyink.com/0808/pg51.htm
and discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/virginiaandtruckee1976


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 Post subject: Re: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:57 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 1078
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
A public meeting was held earlier this month.

Maybe the politics of the Washoe have not changed much since the writing and photography of Beebe and Clegg. It seems to be very much the wild wild West, according to Jim Lohse, who is an unofficial recorder of the meetings of the Commission for the V&T. I can't make very clear sense of what was going on, but it sure sounds like entertainment, perhaps the form of government you are better off not seeing in action, if it creates good things (like a rebuilt silver-era shortline and local jobs).

http://www.renorailfans.com/v-n-t-meetings-minutes/2008-09-September-virginia-truckee-reconstruction.html

Even though it is not known if the historic locomotives of the V&T will ever run over these tracks or not - I am glad that the for the time being the Nevada State Railroad museum is keeping its distance from the debacle. At least it was not mentioned in the above journal.
O. Anderson


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 Post subject: Railroad to Nowhere?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:08 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 441
Location: San Francisco / Santa Monica
Well, it certainly would have made far too much sense to have included the State Museum in the planning. I know very little about what has gone on, so maybe they were offered a role and declined. However, since a very large portion of the NSRM collection is from the V&T, it is hard to not think that it would be great to see some of this equipment relocated to a place where it might be connected to "home" rails. It would also be a good idea to have just one rail-history attraction in Carson, rather than two. The current NSRM site next to US 395 is nice, but it's a bit cramped, and it seems to have been designed to fit on a 4x8 piece of plywood. There is a rumor, that when their first building was erected by the state, that it was done to the specifications of a highway snowplow maintenance station just in case the RR-museum did not survive the next state administration.

Given what we have seen of other steam tourist roads, I have real doubts about the viability of the proposed V&T operation. I want it to succeed, but is that likely? It is not like it will go to the Grand-fracking-Canyon, and we all know how that worked out. The project seems to be a boondoggle. I know the V&T shops are long gone (sob), but it bugs me that the Carson City terminal will be nowhere near the center of Carson City, and instead will be off Hwy 50, a couple of miles from Mound House, at some kind of Hotel/Casino development. Maybe they can get Palace Station to operate it? (rolls eyes).

I would feel a lot more enthusiastic about the project if I knew they were going to invest some of their big money into the NSRM and have them be a part of the project.

Sorry, just having an opinion on the internet.

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Randolph Ruiz
AAA Architecture


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 Post subject: Re: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:53 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
I for one am absolutely thrilled that there is no connection between this new line and the Nevada state museum. All too often we seem to lose sight of the fact that museums and supposed to preserve things, and tourist railroads are supposed to… do what? Entertain, I suppose, with cowboys, Native Americans on the warpath, train robberies, and our little blue friend. If Carson City's newest entertainment venue was supposed to be using the museum equipment, they would consume, waste, and destroy what is one of the best collections of nineteenth century railway equipment in existence today. And for what? To give a couple guys with funny hats and cameras some jollies? Then, after the old stuff was beyond repair, the powers-that-be would decide to "go green" and replace it all with some smoky old Fiat rail motor cars.

We've seen this all before, although in reverse order. When the Corps of Engineers rebuilt the Georgetown loop trestle, it was supposed to become a tourist magnet, and it did. Because inevitably form will follow function, it grew into a mass transit operation moving masses of bodies up and down the hill behind Shays… interesting in its own right, but hardly a historic recreation. The Colorado Historical Society has recently rectified that… now the trains are canceled more often than not because the equipment is broken down, which is probably a much better recreation of what was the reality of the C&S than anyone could have hoped for.

Be very careful what you wish for.

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Dennis Storzek


Last edited by Dennis Storzek on Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:56 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Illinois
When rebuilding the V&T was first discussed I think the Gray family was chosen as the operators. Then, a few years later, the Commission brought in the Sierra RR as operator and purchased the 18 and the SP Subs for coaches. Now the Grays seem to be the operators once again, and it is rumored that the Sierra operation has been sold. Confusing?

At least they have made some good progress getting track re-laid. That's more progress than many ever expected.

Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 441
Location: San Francisco / Santa Monica
I suppose I was not being very clear, but I was not suggesting the NSRM equipment be used for the operation, or even that NSRM operate the regular passenger trains. They do a good job of limiting the operation of their collection to ensure its preservation. However, to the extent that they do exist in a physical location, and do occasionally operate their equipment, it would be an improvement to see this take place somewhere with a history associated with the collection. Since there is going to be some manner of themed development at the lines Carson City terminal, including an outpost of the railroad museum, if not the entire railroad museum, would seem to be a good idea.

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Randolph Ruiz
AAA Architecture


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 Post subject: Re: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Confusion reigns about the new line, but I'm not involved so nothing from me about that - rumor has it bids for the next segment were going out perhaps today. I can tell you that 8 was test fired yesterday, they are now doing some final adjustments. Tom's Boonton cars are being repainted inside and out, truly nice additions for winter season trains. 29 is serviceable for now and the forseeable future, and there's some talk about finally getting to work on 1251. All in all, political foolishness aside, things seem to be looking up for the old V&T.

dave

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: Virginia and Truckee in 2008
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:46 am
Posts: 148
Location: Elko, NV
Interesting times on the V&T...

As for the current situation, the Sierra holds the operating contract for the public portion of the V&T. The Gray family and the commission had some sort of an arrangement a few years ago, but it appears the commission has either backed out of or is ignoring that arrangement. The Gray's V&T does have rights to use the commission trackage, and they run on the new trackage beyond Mound House with the last train of the day.

How the Gray's V&T and the commission's V&T will coexist is still something that is yet to be worked out. As things stand now the commission's V&T will (if/when it gets completed) extend from the distant eastern suburbs of Carson City to Mound House. The Gray's V&T will continue to operate the Mound House to Virginia City trackage. Operation of the commission's V&T into Virginia City will require the commission either securing some sort of trackage rights over the Gray's operation or buying the Grays outright, or hiring the Grays as their operator. Another solutions- and the one that seems most likely at the moment- is that the commission's V&T will terminate in Gold Hill, with their passengers having to find their own way into Virginia City- perhaps an "across the platform" transfer to the Gray's V&T.

The Gray's V&T definately is making a lot of visible progress in this past year. I'm impressed with what they have accomplished. They are certainly acting like a business that is planning to be around for a good long while.

I'm also impressed with what the commission has accomplished, but I can't help but feel that they really don't have a good handle on what they are doing. They have a plan, but it appears to be based on a lot of almost fantasy. I don't think they are going to get near the ridership they expect. It appears that there may be issues with their chosen operator- the latest internet rumors (for what they're worth) are that the proposed sale to Patriot Rail- which would have covered only the freight operations on the Sierra and Sierra Northern- has fallen through, but Chirs Hart has gone on record to a Nevada newspaper that he is actively trying to sell out. What implications this might have on the future are unknown.

McCloud River #25 will be coming on the market in the very near future. Perhaps the commission will purchase it as well- it would be a much more appropriate locomotive for the V&T than the #18. And to add to the irony- back in the late 1940's the original V&T enlisted Alco's help in searching for power, and Alco led the V&T to the McCloud River. The V&T tried to get the McCloud River to sell them one of their 20-series prairies, but the McCloud still needed them and would not sell. In a way, it would be fitting if one of those locomotives finally did end up in the Comstock. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the rebuilt V&T turns out to be a financial boondoggle of collosal proportions.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV


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