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| Surviving Baldwin Sharks https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26710 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
I was discussing the two ex-NYC, ex-MRY, ex-D&H, ex-MN Sharks with someone and the question came up if they have now been stored longer than they served any of their previous owners. Anyone know? Les |
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| Author: | kevin kohls [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Les: I did some quick checking and it seems that the two NYC Baldwin RF-16 sharks last ran around 1976. Since that was 32 years ago I would say that they have been in storage for almost the same time they were in service ! I remember reading about them on the D&H in 1975 and wanting to see them, but I was still in High School and New York was too far away. Little did I realize then it might be the only opportunity to ever see a Baldwin Shark ! Let's pray they can be enjoyed by all again some day. I do appreciate them being stored inside though !!!!!! Kevin Kohls |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Correction: The 1205 and 1216 may have last operated on the D&H in 1976, but they operated for at least a couple years on the Escanaba & Lake Superior, their current home. I'm pegging their retirement at ca. 1981? So, presuming a 1951 or 1952 build date..... not yet? |
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| Author: | trainspot [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
I found a picture dated 1988 of them outside, but can't find a link now. This was taken in 1982, it looks like one could have been operational, as one did run briefly on the E&LS: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1113355 |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
According to: http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/RidingSharks.html 1205 last operated in 1977 or 1978, and 1216 last operated in 1982. 1205 built 12/1951. 1216 built 01/1952. That makes 26 years operating, 31 years stored for 1205. and 30 years operating, 27 years stored for 1216. The units are 57 years old. (I used the year 2009, since 2008 is nearly over) Scot |
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| Author: | Don C. [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Les, I photographed 1205 and 1216 on the Michigan Northern at Cadillac, MI, in June of 1978. 1216 was doubleheading with former SR RS3 2037 on the day I visited. On a return trip in late March of 1979, I found 1216 dead at Cadillac and 1205 dead on the dock at St. Ignace. I suspect that 1205 was already enroute to Escanaba and the E&LS. Don C. |
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| Author: | Chris Salmonson [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
A page from the Michigan Railroads photo album depicts the 1205 at the St Ignace dock en route to E&LS in 1979. http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Pictures/Photos/041-050/Photo050A.htm |
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| Author: | DavidKaplan [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Does anyone know why these units have been stored for so long? I've always wondered why the owner(s) haven't had them out or done something with them over these many years. Does anyone think they might be sold anytime soon and if so, who could or would want to buy them? It's a shame for such rare locos to be shut up in a building somewhere. |
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| Author: | davew833 [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Because of some issues of vandalism and theft back in the early '80s, the owner of the E&LS is famously very anti-railfan. Any attempts to see or photograph the units or even gain information about them have been met with hostility and/or stonewalling. However, an insider posted here last time the issue came up, that the future of the Baldwins has been secured. The impression I've got was that they'd been promised to a museum somewhere upon the owner's death. I think he also has some vintage passenger equipment, including an ex-MILW Skytop Lounge, stored on the property as well. |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
In a word, money. The arrangement with the Michigan Northern was a lease; both units were damaged while in service there, and a lawsuit ensued. The units were moved to the E&LS because at the time Wells, MI was the Baldwin capital of the world, and the owner was hoping that they could be repaired with the settlement from the suit. As far as I know he never collected a dime, and was unwilling to throw good money after bad to have them repaired. They have been at Wells for so long that I believe that ownership was formally transferred to the E&LS (or its owner) in lieu of storage charges. |
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| Author: | trainspot [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Here's an account of what transpired: http://baldwindiesels.railfan.net/mign/index.html |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Mr. Huff's story jibes with what John Kunzie told me some years ago. Indeed both he and Mr. Larkin tracked down the B unit that was reported as being used as a portable generator, with the thought of rebuilding all three units into an A-B-A set, but found the B unit less trucks and in terrible shape. John told me it had been physically drug around on its frame to move it from place to place. That ended that idea. |
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| Author: | trainspot [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Don't forget the "B" unit generator was re-engined by Alco. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
So the bottom line question is, why keep them under secure wraps for so long, assuming the owner is "anti-railfan", unable to rebuild them, not using them? Forgive my forward thinking on this, but shouldn't they be sold to an operation like SMS, or donated to a museum with a certain guarantee of preservation? I am deeply gratified to know they exist and are unlikely to be further abused, but what is the point of ownership? |
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| Author: | John D [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Surviving Baldwin Sharks |
Richard, your question is one that's probably been pondered more than once, with good reason. Wouldn't it be great to have these locomotives see the light of day, be restored to running condition, etc etc...however... My guess is that the reality here is private owners may not always think in ways we'd like. Case in point-the Lost Engines of Roanoke sat in the scrapyard for years, even though (presumably) people may have asked to buy/donate some or all of the locomotives. Sometimes the owners finally decide to send their collection to a new home (the two West Virginia Northern 2-8-0s come to mind); sometimes the next chapter isn't written until the owner passes away and the heirs dispose of the assets...and sadly, sometimes that next chapter isn't one we'd like (think of Paulson Spence and his locomotive collection, or Dick Jensen's 4-6-2). |
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