Here is the story from the Trains News Wire:

http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=4233

I have long expected to see the last steam locomotive operate in America. Fortunately that event has been postponed for decades beyond my expectations -- thanks to the old timers and a few young enthusiasts who keep them going and the attention they garner from fans and the general public.

For now, there is still steam. But where is sufficient enthusiasm going to come from in the future. Will the public be interested in seeing a steam locomotive run. Would more converts be created as the young are brought into the cab to really experience steam in action? Will steam be able to continue?

I maintain that the up close and personal experience of a cab ride is one of the best opportunities there is for perpetuating a love of steam, and that without them, steam fans will be less in number and steam may yet die.

how about copy and past this for us to read, because I get this when I click on that link. " SUBSCRIBER-ONLY CONTENT
You are currently not logged in. This article is only available to Trains magazine subscribers. "

Len.

Published: Tuesday, November 11, 2008
MILWAUKEE - Citing recent accidents on non-tourist railroads and increasing concerns about liability, the Tourist Railroad Association Inc. board of directors has issued a strong caution to its members about cab rides.

The association board, meeting in Milwaukee for its annual convention, passed a resolution Sunday asking members to follow Federal Railroad Administration regulations about cab riders. That means not allowing anyone in the cab of an operating locomotive except for "authorized personnel."

The resolution stops short of calling for an end to cab rides, which many tourist railroads offer informally or by buying a special ticket.

"We're asking them to be more careful," said President Rick Burchett.

"Anyone who is in the cab who is not a part of the crew is a potential distraction," said Executive Director Dan Ranger.

Organizations also need to be more restrictive on visits to stationary locomotives in operation. Ranger pointed to the Union Pacific, which sets up platforms adjacent to the cabs of its steam locomotives on display so visitors can inspect them but not enter the cab, as a way of doing things right.

Engineer-for-an-hour programs may continue but under close supervision and not on trains with the riding public.

The recent Metrolink accident that cost 25 lives and a recent incident on Chicago's Metra in which a teen ran a commuter train brought the cab rider issue into sharper focus, TRAIN officials said.

In other business at the Nov. 4-9 meeting, co-sponsored by Trains' publisher Kalmbach Publishing Co., and Mid-Continent Railway Museum, the association:

• Set up a youth advisory committee to work on bringing young people into the association.

• Agreed to work with the Association of Railway Museums to investigate a jointly published magazine to replace separate publications each group produces now.

• Firmed up plans for its 2009 annual meeting to take place at the Grand Canyon Railway at the South Rim in Arizona and for its 2010 annual meeting to take place at the Rio Grande Scenic Railroad in Alamosa, Colo.

Cab rides offer tourist railroads a couple of great opportunities. First the can add extra money to the bottom line with little or no extra cost. Second they can offer a great way to hook new members/volunteers/donors. It would be a shame to take away this opportunity. There is a big difference between riding in the cab of an Amtrak train and little toot running along at 10 miler per hour.

[redacted]

Frankly I can see both sides of this issue. As a part time loco. engineer on the NH&I I can testify to the plus side of the matter. The NH&I sells cab rides @ $ 40 for the 45 minute round trip from New Hope- Lahaska. On an average day they'll sell between 1 and 3 cab rides and thus over the course of a full year generate some decent additional cash. Many of the cab riders are folks who have been given it as an anniversary or birthday present by a loved one who knows of thier love for trains. I have carried many young riders ( at the NH&I the minimum age is I believe 18??) to whom this was thier first exposure to actual operations and there's no doubt it increased thier interest. We give them a safety briefing and they are required to remain seated on the firemans seat. I'm grateful to report that I have not had any negative incidents.

You can make a plausible argument that adding someone extra into an intense and quick moving environment is asking for trouble no matter how carefully you structure and execute it.

At the end of the day it's a matter of weighing the risk/reward ratio carefully and making a decision that fits your operation.

From the perspective of encourageing new folks to get passionate about railroading-- I hope cab rides survive!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland

What a shame. One of my all-time fondest memories is riding up the New River Gorge in the cab of 765 with Rich Melvin at the throttle, at up to 50 mph. I'm sure I'm not the only fan with memories like that.

I wonder what the FRA would think of the Wolsztyn Experience in Poland? Probably have a collective heart attack! As a federally certified engineer, I've had my doubts about it, but I'm going to have a chance to see (and experience) it myself in a few weeks, so I'll be better able to pass judgment on how safe it is to let limited numbers of "civilians" in the cab, and allow them to actually operate the locomotive. Wolsztyn has never had a serious incident allowing amateurs to run regularly scheduled, steam-powered commuter trains at 60 mph - not knowing either the rules or the language, which is amazing in and of itself (the Polish crews know how to say stop in English!). Of course I won't get to storm into a station with 20 lbs. out of the train line and squeal to a stop - they coast-in. I wonder just how many of the passengers know that the twice daily steam powered trains they commute on have novices at the throttle? It's not like they have an extensive pre-trip training program either. Participants just show up on the platform and get on. Yes, the federal boys would pretty much drop a load in their overalls if they saw that.

It's bad enough that some Class I's are doing just about everything they can to discourage interest in day-to-day railroading. When the supposedly public-friendly tourist RR's find it necessary to keep the fans at bay from what they love, then the hobby is most likely fatally injured.

Not quite. If you are lucky to do the line to Leszno, there are, IIRC, 11 stops to do in 1 hour. If you drift in, your "looking over the shoulder engineer" will get pretty upset. The Poznan line is not so exciting but longer. Wroclaw is shorter, but you get to do it 3 times/day. Some stations (eg, Wolsztyn, Leszno, Poznan, and one other on the Poznan run, name not coming to me right now) you will not be at the helm for.

They will tell you (basically) when to brake, as the stations are not very visible; you have to know the line, and the "shut off steam" signs are too close to the stations. I have been twice; prefer the Leszno run with the OK22, but probably they will not do that run any more.

Yes, the FRA would get upset with the state of the locomotives. When you go, just remember that it is the way they do it, and have done it for quite a while, and smile, and keep your wits about you. Its their territory; complaints or negative comments will probably get you nowhere.

Also, some of the participants just want a "glorified cab ride", so the engine crews really do not know the level of skills of the participants - that has to be "negotiated".

Signed - A provincially certified "Steam Traction Operator"

This morning on NBC news in Chicago, 2 Metra engineers were given suspensions
for letting teenagers in the cab of locomotives. One engineer was given
6 months supension, no pay, 2 year probation, the other 60 days suspension
no pay. No other information was given as to the circumstances of
the suspension. Guess this is a wake up call for everyone who would
like to see inside a cab of a locomotive.

Tom Travis HVRM North Judson IN

In my opinion, with proper supervision I see no problem with a limited number of passengers in the cab. Provided they are well out of the way of operations, and are given safety instructions. They should also sign a release form. This is probable not easy in a dirt burner. In an oil burner it is not an issue.

The cab crew must perform professionally and pay attention to the job at all times.

dan

The problem, in my eyes:

There's a HUGE difference between--just to cite personal examples:
*a Climax chugging out and back with a light train, where the loco is set up for one-man operation;
*a local freight rolling out and back on an isolated branch line;
*a 2-8-0 on a photo runby with a freight train;
*a B40-8 delivering an 8,000-ton coal train to a power plant;
*a Metroliner EMU roaring from Philly to Harrisburg.

Heck, there's even a huge difference between Strasburg's 90, 7312, and 475!

In every cab-ride situation I've been in, the crew had to personally judge my competence and fitness to be in the cab. There's obviously a "sixth sense" at work where, in spite of the camera around my neck and/or the radio in my back pocket, a crew can sense a level-headed, responsible fan rather than a foaming fanatic. I would actually be FAR more wary of someone who just paid a bunch of money to ride a cab than someone who I've seen trackside for years and shows up with his own steel-toe boots and gloves.

"Engineer-for-an-hour" and other such "backstage experience" programs are probably critical to the survival of this avocation, helping to create the next Don Balls, Linn Moedingers, Doyle McCormacks, Alan Maples, Bill Purdies, and/or Graham Claytors. But keeping reckless "cowboys" or Walter Mittys in check has to be part of the equation, and frankly "gut sense" exclusion just won't cut it from a PR standpoint.

Times have changed, and we have a mixed blessing on our hands. Digital technology and the Internet are wonderful in so many ways. But at the same time, any "whoops" or indiscretion or (fill in the blank) can be circulated ad nauseum, hence the level of caution needed these days. Mr. Mitchell, for my money, has assessed the situation well.

I attended the Train seminar dealing with safety and limiting cab rides was mentioned. It is not punishment for the railfans.
Running through the ranks to become an engineer, I was notified of all the dangers inherent with the steam locomotive every day I was training. The cab of a steam locomotive is chock full of hot lines and pipes, not to mention that it lurches around as it trundles down the line. As a veteran crew member you know where the bad track is, where that uninsulated plug lies, and that the sight glass is hot. Random well wisher who wants to ride with sandals (or worse, Crocs) and a t-shirt might get a slight burn, or worse, take a spill off of the gangway. An accident of the like would not reflect well for the tourist railroad industry.
I would love to show people the view from the cab, but by operating rules, I am not allowed to give anyone not rules qualified cab rides. I have to respect that rule.

I have never been in favor of giving just ordinary civilians cab rides because of the inherent dangers and I have enough on my plate watching track,water, and tending to the general welfare of the locomotive. My previous employer offers this attraction at $500 a pop,but they at least set it up so that you have to be properly dressed for the occasion (jeans, eye and ear protection, hard sole shoes and a liability release, over the age of 18). I had a few of them and all were well behaved,once I gave them a general run down of where to be and not to be. I also reserved to right to refuse a cab rider if I thought they were going to be a problem. It might be their railroad,but it's still my locomotive and I'm responsible for whatever happens aboard her.

Cab riders are a mixed bag. Any more than one or maybe two always made me nervous. I always pictured a cab full of people and have a water glass break or a valve or pipe start leaking steam or hot water. Not a pretty picture.
It's important that you maintain contact with the fireman on an oil burner and people standing in the cab make that harder to do.
Like TXhighballer, when you are on the main line doing track speed, you certainly don't need distractions.
We usually had one or two of our members in the cab for their "paybacks", but they were sufficiently educated and stayed out of the way and basically knew what to do if a problem arose.
I did have a pilot engineer one time that I would have liked to boot out of the cab, but that's a different story.