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Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2677		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rob Davis [ Tue Feb 12, 2002 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
Hmmm... the thread on the NP 0-6-0 #3070 got me thinking... I didn't realize she was a Manchester (ALCo). So how many others are with us?

That thread tells us:

NP 0-6-0 #1070
B&M 4-4-0 #494 (pre-ALCo)
B&M 0-6-0 #410
B&M 2-6-0 #1455

To these, we can add...

Mount Washington 1 (pre-ALCo)
Mount Washington 2 (pre-ALCo) operable
Mount Washington 3 (pre-ALCo) operable
Mount Washington 4 (pre-ALCo) operable
Mount Washington 6 (pre-ALCo) operable
Mount Washington 9 operable

Is B&M 0-6-0 #444 in Dunkirk, NY a Manchester, too?

Does the "Edison" 4-4-0 at Greenfield, MI sort of count since it was built from Manchester parts?

Any others?

Rob Davis

PS: There are some Manchester-built steam fire pumpers around, too!

trains@robertjohndavis.com
Author:  Richard Jenkins [ Tue Feb 12, 2002 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives *PIC*
There's also NP 1068, a L-9 class 0-6-0 from the same batch as the 1070, on display in Dilworth, Minnesota.

> Hmmm... the thread on the NP 0-6-0 #3070 got
> me thinking... I didn't realize she was a
> Manchester (ALCo). So how many others are
> with us?

> That thread tells us:

> NP 0-6-0 #1070
> B&M 4-4-0 #494 (pre-ALCo)
> B&M 0-6-0 #410
> B&M 2-6-0 #1455

> To these, we can add...

> Mount Washington 1 (pre-ALCo)
> Mount Washington 2 (pre-ALCo) operable
> Mount Washington 3 (pre-ALCo) operable
> Mount Washington 4 (pre-ALCo) operable
> Mount Washington 6 (pre-ALCo) operable
> Mount Washington 9 operable

> Is B&M 0-6-0 #444 in Dunkirk, NY a
> Manchester, too?

> Does the "Edison" 4-4-0 at
> Greenfield, MI sort of count since it was
> built from Manchester parts?

> Any others?

> Rob Davis

> PS: There are some Manchester-built steam
> fire pumpers around, too!


Image
rjenkins@railfan.net
Author:  James D. Hefner [ Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
Rob/Richard,

Good memory! There is also the following, for a total of 14 (counting the engine in the Dearborn Museum):

* Oahu RY&Land 0-6-0 #12 (have picture in database), Hawaiian RR Society, Ewa, Oahu, HI.

The steam fire engines are listed in "Surviving World Steam Vehicles" under Mancester's original name, Amoskeag Manufacturing Company. I have eight listed to date, but I am sure there are many others.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> There's also NP 1068, a L-9 class 0-6-0 from
> the same batch as the 1070, on display in
> Dilworth, Minnesota.


Surviving World Steam Vehicles
james1@pernet.net
Author:  David Ackerman [ Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
There is a surviving NP L-5 class 0-6-0 in Snoqualmie Washington. The builder's plate is missing so I can'f ascertain whose manufature it is, but it appears quite similair to the L-9, though perhaps a touch older. (Seems to have had a kerosine headlamp.) Is this perhaps another NH locomotive? If the link will get you into my yahoo briefcase, I've got a phot there.

Sincerely,
David Ackerman

924 photo
david_ackerman@yahoo.com
Author:  Richard Wilkens [ Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
The #924 was built by Rogers.

Northern Pacific 0-6-0 #924

Type: 0-6-0 Built: September 1899 Builder: Rogers Locomotive Works
Builders No.: 5425 Weight: 57.5 tons Fuel: Coal

St. Paul and Duluth #74 (1899-1900)
Northern Pacific Railway #924 Class L-5 (1900-1925)
Inland Empire Paper Co. #924 Millwood, WA (1925-1969)

> There is a surviving NP L-5 class 0-6-0 in
> Snoqualmie Washington. The builder's plate
> is missing so I can'f ascertain whose
> manufature it is, but it appears quite
> similair to the L-9, though perhaps a touch
> older. (Seems to have had a kerosine
> headlamp.) Is this perhaps another NH
> locomotive? If the link will get you into my
> yahoo briefcase, I've got a phot there.

> Sincerely,
> David Ackerman
Author:  David Woodbury [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
> Rob/Richard,

> Good memory! There is also the following,
> for a total of 14 (counting the engine in
> the Dearborn Museum):

> * Oahu RY&Land 0-6-0 #12 (have picture
> in database), Hawaiian RR Society, Ewa,
> Oahu, HI.

> The steam fire engines are listed in
> "Surviving World Steam Vehicles"
> under Mancester's original name, Amoskeag
> Manufacturing Company. I have eight listed
> to date, but I am sure there are many
> others.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a

As a former Cog employee, I'm ashamed to have forgotten their ancestry. They had their origins in the pre-Alco Manchester days except #9 which was an Alco product. However, over the years these engines have been so modified that any original parts are totally coincidental.
As far as fire engines are concerned, Amoskeag made some as a side line to their textile manufacturing business. Manchester Locomotive Works, a separate business, stuck to Locomotives as far as I know.
Ex-B&M 444 is a Brooks engine, having been built after the collapse of Manchester. That's why it's on display in Dunkirk, NY.
One possible explanation for the NP to go as far afield as Manchester is that 1907 was recession year. Manufacturing space in Manchester was available and Alco management in Schenectady parcelled out the work to it's subsidiary.


wrj494@aol.com
Author:  Stephen Hussar [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives *PIC*
Is this a Manchester? Are there some physical features that distinguish it as such?
Another question...
Is this is one of the locomotives pulled out of the Fletcher quarries in Chelmsford, MA?



Image
sjhussar@aol.com
Author:  David Woodbury [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
> Is this a Manchester? Are there some
> physical features that distinguish it as
> such?
> Another question...
> Is this is one of the locomotives pulled out
> of the Fletcher quarries in Chelmsford, MA?
This is one of two Fletcher Quarry locomotives. 410, nicely restored and displayed at the National Park in Lowell, MA is the other. L&RP, the magazine, has the story in issue #8, May-June, 1987.

wrj494@aol.com
Author:  James D. Hefner [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
I believe 444 is the number on the tender, in which case it is the engine in Dunkirk, NY, and not 410 in Lowell, MA.

No, you really can't tell by looking if it is a Manchester works locomotive or not. It either has to have the original builder's plate, or you have to know the history.

All of the ALCO works built basically the same locomotives, although some of the works built smaller locomotives. The two works in Paterson, NJ, (Cooke and Rogers) didn't even have a railhead; see link below to see how they got them to a railroad.

In regards to the pair of sunk locomotives recently found off the coast of NJ, my guess is that they were contractors locomotives outbound from one of the plants in Paterson, NJ, perhaps to the West Coast, that were washed off deck or sank in a storm.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Is this a Manchester? Are there some
> physical features that distinguish it as
> such?
> Another question...
> Is this is one of the locomotives pulled out
> of the Fletcher quarries in Chelmsford, MA?


Paterson Horse Railroad
james1@pernet.net
Author:  J. David [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
> I wonder how many of the Mount Washington Cog Railway locomotive have any connection to Manchester save their road numbers.
It is my understanding that all of the Manchester built locomotives have new boilers, frames engines and wheels, in other words, they are new locomotives, built at the Mt.Washington shops.
Is their any one out there from the shop who can help us out with this question?
J. David

jdconrad@snet.net
Author:  Richard Jenkins [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives *PIC*
Since we're on the subject of surviving Manchester locos, does anything remain of the old Manchester works themselves? I only live about 35 miles from Manchester, and I've often thought about going to look for any trace of the old locomotive works. However, since they closed so long ago, any buildings that might survive would have been put to other uses, and with all the other old mill buildings around there as well, I'm not sure I would know what I was looking at anyway.

Image
rjenkins@railfan.net
Author:  David Woodbury [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surviving Manchester, NH-built locomotives
> Since we're on the subject of surviving
> Manchester locos, does anything remain of
> the old Manchester works themselves? I only
> live about 35 miles from Manchester, and
> I've often thought about going to look for
> any trace of the old locomotive works.
> However, since they closed so long ago, any
> buildings that might survive would have been
> put to other uses, and with all the other
> old mill buildings around there as well, I'm
> not sure I would know what I was looking at
> anyway.

Richard, The only surviving buildings I know about are on Canal Street between Dow on the north and Hollis(?) on the south. They're only one story. There are some associated buildings in the same block, but I don't know their history.


wrj494@aol.com
Author:  Chris Salmonson [ Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Is the Edison a Manchester? *PIC*
As a fireman on the Edison at Greenfield Village in Dearborn I constantly get asked by visitors, who made the Edison, since it was rebuilt in 32 by Ford at their Rouge shops, I just say it was shop-built as I can't really figure out what is from the Manchester 0-4-0 that it once was. The May (I think it was) 1974 issue of Trains had a good article on what it was before it was supposed to be a Mason with interesting diagrams and conjecture. I think the only original peices are the tender (with the spoked wheels, two axels) and possibly the domes (which were reversed on the 0-4-0). It's hard to determine what else, the engines might be, but I don't think the bell is, the whistle is not since it is from a Grand Trunk 4-8-4(does the job when visitors stray on the right of way). The engine slips easily since it was meant to be an 0-4-0 (I think the drivers retained the same spacing apart), but since they are so far back that the engine almost is balanced on the lead trucks and the drivers. The firebox is too small as well, taking 9 scoops to fill it up. The only reason I give for this locomotive exisiting is that Henry Ford was who he was. He wanted a 4-4-0, Rouge had to give him one. The people who built it probably never thought anyone would run it, since it was rebuilt around 72 to actually run. (the cab was too small for anyone to stand in it). Basically, I wouldn't call the Edison a Manchester, unless you count the tender.

-chris

Image
c8salmon@wmich.edu
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