In looking over some old photos in the possesion of a friend, I found several of the RS-1 hauled C&WI passenger trains. The photos appear to be from the late 1940s or early 1950s. I remember that the C&WI had a commuter operation of sorts. The passenger cars appear to be PRR P-54 commuter cars with the port hole windows plated over? Is this correct? Anybody know the origin and heritgage of the C&WI passenger fleet?

David

David - Without searching my records, and only going from memory, the C&WI passenger car "fleet" at the end consisted of:

Heavyweight coach #39 with leaded glass windows on the inside which had been covered over with steel plates on the outside. I believe this was a former Alton Railroad car. I think this was the "back up" car.

Combine # 40 which was used on the one mid-day train to deliver newspapers out along the line.

Stillwell commuter coaches of which I believe there were 5 in number. I seem to recall that the numbers were 42 through 46. Logic suggests that these came from the Erie Railroad, since the Erie was one of the users of Dearborn Station, and one of the Western Indiana's owners. These 5 cars comprised the railroads single morning and evening weekday run. I think that one of the Stillwell's was used for the Saturday run which came in from Dolton, Illinois in the morning and went back from Dearborn to Dolton sometime after lunch.

Someone will probably give you some more accurate information, or I may be able to come up with mine, but don't hold your breath!

Les

Les beat me to it; while he was writing his reply, I was looking at Fallen Flags. The roster roster lists five Erie Stillwell coaches (one of which may still survive as a book store?), while a caption in the photo index mentions a train with four of the six Stillwells. The roster only shows five, however.

I had a passing interest in the C&IW some years ago because we were using former G&W 43 at our Jersey Central Terminal Railroad, which had been built as C&IW 256.

There may have been some earlier round roof cars as well, IIRC; I'll have to look at Fallen Flags some more. Combine 40 was a steel round roof car, and there is a photo at the very bottom of the Fallen Flags page.

EDM -

Combine #40 was a arch (round) roofed car. Also be careful with railroad intials here. The C&WI was the Chicago & Western Indiana, but the C&IW was the Chicago & Illinois Western, which was a switching railroad eventually owned by the Illinois Central.

As for ex-Pennsy P-54's being used on C&WI commuter trains, that is a possibility. They may have predated the cars mentioned above. I seem to recall seeing a photo of a C&WI 2-6-0 hauled commuter train, and those were NOT the Stillwell cars. It seems reasonable to assume that those earlier cars ended up being pulled by C&WI diesels after steam was retired.

Les

The C&IW for C&WI was a typo and/or dyslexia. I do pay more attention to my initials, as I'm an Alco guy-

Thanks for the replies.

The photograph I saw is linked here:


http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0107/cwi261.jpg

From this angle, I cannot tell if they are P-54s or Stillwells.

The first two (and likely the third) are certainly P-54 cars, not Stillwells. The last two could be Stillwells, as the profile and length seems slightly different.

Those ex-PRR P-54s sure got around; the B&M had some and so did the NYS&W. I think the Erie even bought a few, including a combine.

Howard P.

N&W aquired some in the 1930's, also;

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfol ... S2662.jpeg

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfol ... s1618.jpeg

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfol ... S2628.jpeg

They also made a few secondhand purchases from the Erie

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfol ... S2674.jpeg

The secondhand commuter cars were used to retire the last wooden cars in service on the branchline trains. They themselves were then retired by downgraded mainline heavyweights in the 1950's.

I think the NYS&W P-54s were really PB-54s, purchased thirdhand from the Erie. They came along about 1940, along with the Stillwells, which were of the shorter length variety.

I wasn't surprised to read that the N&W wound up with some ex-PRR passenger equipment; at one time the Penn held a lot of N&W stock; the Stillwells were a real surprise, though.

Not only did the B&M have some P-54s, but they also had some DL&W Boontons and some Readings as well. I think the MEC had Readings, too; perhaps a joint purchase?

It is interesting to see how some of the earlier steel passenger equipment got around-

The C&WI Stillwells went to the now long gone Cadillac & Lake City Railroad in Michigan. A 1968 Trains Magazine story about the C&LC had a roster of the cars, but I don't have access to it at the moment. As indicated above, one apparently survives, employed as home to a retail establishment.

While trying to refresh my memory of this, I Googled the C&LC and found this rather interesting web page about the line:

http://www.railroadmichigan.com/cadillaclakecity.html

Alan Maples

Alan -

Interesting webpage. The Stillwell that is now a store looks as if it were C&WI #44, which kind of fits in to my memory of the Stillwell car numbers. I also seem to recall that the owners of the C&LC eventually moved operations out to Colorado. I believe on a segment of the old Rock Island line. Not everything went out there, but I seem to remember that at least some of the Stillwells did. But maybe not. Anyone know for sure?

One other thing. The arch roofed combine (#40) that I mentioned above, actually ended up down at the Monticello Railway Museum. I think it was originally privately owned. The car was eventually donated to MRM but by that time it had deteriorated badly. The museum looked for a new owner to take it off their hands, but was unsuccessful and eventually scrapped the car.

Les

There is a Stillwell that runs at the annual steam festival in Buckley, MI. I think this is an ex-C&LC car as well.

Chris.