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| Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2684 |
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| Author: | Mark McVittie [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
The Kamloops Heritage Railway is in need of information/statistics/reports relating to the impact a 2-8-0 or similar size has on track (85lb/100lb) vs a diesel (see below). I would think this information has been prepared for other railways by special interest groups such as ourselves when starting up. Specifically a comparison to an SD 38-2 and/or an SD 40-2 both 6 axle weighing 370,000 and 380,000 lbs; also an MLW M420 4 axle weighing 268,000 lbs. specific questions / comments may be emailed directly to mcvittie@sageserve.com Thanks for all of your help mcvittie@sageserve.com |
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| Author: | R.L.Kennedy [ Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
You neglected to give the specs of the 2-8-0 and also why you are asking. Your 2-8-0 should be OK on 85 lb rail at say, 35mph+ assuming it is being properly maintained. Dynamic augment is a big concern. The pounding of all that energy to the rails and roadbed will be harder on track than say a GP9. Speed is a big factor as the faster you go the more damage possible to track. Is the track in daily use for more than say, a single unit 10 car freight? Is it in good alignment and properly tamped? When you look down the track is it level and straight? Or, can you see lots of little kinks at the joints and ups and downs? Is the ballast in good appearance? Or, is it dirty, scattered, ties exposed, ties rotted, rail badly worn? If more than two rotten ties in a row not supporting any weight of rail, you got problems! Now we are looking at 15 mph at best, maybe 0 mph, yes that zero, for pasenger. > The Kamloops Heritage Railway is in need of > information/statistics/reports relating to > the impact a 2-8-0 or similar size has on > track (85lb/100lb) vs a diesel (see below). > I would think this information has been > prepared for other railways by special > interest groups such as ourselves when > starting up. > Specifically a comparison to an SD 38-2 > and/or an SD 40-2 both 6 axle weighing > 370,000 and 380,000 lbs; also an MLW M420 4 > axle weighing 268,000 lbs. > specific questions / comments may be emailed > directly to > mcvittie@sageserve.com > Thanks for all of your help http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains oldtimetrains@rrmail.com |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
All else being equal, you can beat the s??t out of your track with either depending on how you use them. Running at moderate speed I don't think you will see much difference in your track costs. Of course, you will have an infestation of the public with the 2-8-0 you don't have with diesel. Give it a try and let us know how it works out. Dave irondave@bellsouth.net |
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| Author: | ge13031 [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
SPEED: We run our 320,000 crane (two 6-wheel buckeye trucks) on FRA class 1 track at 6mph with no problems (80lb yard tracks). We run our E8A at 19 mph on FRA class 2 track with no problems (90Rb main). Both classes allow a certain number of ties to be "non-spiked". FOOTPRINT: The longer the rigid wheelbase the harder it is on curves and switches. A 2-8-0 has a longer rigid wheelbase than either of the two examples and will tend to try and force the rails apart on curves and switches more so than the diesels. This is sideways pressure and will be much more sensitive to how many ties hold the rail upright. This also makes superelevation more demanding. Springing and equalizing: Steam locomotives do not do this well, interurban trucks are probably the best .. being able to run on wet grass, followed by the diesels, followed by the steamers. If your track causes "galloping" you are close to trouble. A good trackbase is required that will minimize low-joint rocking. etc. etc. lamontdc@adelphia.net |
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| Author: | Allen [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
One thing to keep in mind is that Transport Canada permits a maximum speed of 25mph for "tourist" excursion trains. (Unless your passenger equipment is at full Amtrak/VIA standards). One thing to look at is axle loadings, comparing your 2-8-0 to the diesels you have mentioned. There's also the long, rigid wheelbase of the steamer to take into account. If you're going to be running on Class 2 track or better, at 25mph there will be no appreciable difference between the steam locomotive or diesel locomotive. > The Kamloops Heritage Railway is in need of > information/statistics/reports relating to > the impact a 2-8-0 or similar size has on > track (85lb/100lb) vs a diesel (see below). > I would think this information has been > prepared for other railways by special > interest groups such as ourselves when > starting up. > Specifically a comparison to an SD 38-2 > and/or an SD 40-2 both 6 axle weighing > 370,000 and 380,000 lbs; also an MLW M420 4 > axle weighing 268,000 lbs. > specific questions / comments may be emailed > directly to > mcvittie@sageserve.com > Thanks for all of your help |
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| Author: | Mark McVittie [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 2-8-0 Vs Diesel TECH Info |
I'd like to thank you all for putting this information out. Unfortunately it is information we already have. What we need is some 'official' report, technical or otherwise, written by or for a recognized body. Someone whose willing to put thier name and reputation to it. We may have to pay for it, but we'll consider the options. Does anyone know of such a report. We're looking for the manufacturers spec's on our engine, but thought someone else may have a report prepared. Thanks for all your feedback. Mark > One thing to keep in mind is that Transport > Canada permits a maximum speed of 25mph for > "tourist" excursion trains. > (Unless your passenger equipment is at full > Amtrak/VIA standards). > One thing to look at is axle loadings, > comparing your 2-8-0 to the diesels you have > mentioned. There's also the long, rigid > wheelbase of the steamer to take into > account. If you're going to be running on > Class 2 track or better, at 25mph there will > be no appreciable difference between the > steam locomotive or diesel locomotive. mcvittie@sageserve.com |
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| Author: | John Stewart [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
Allen; Can you give me a reference (document #, or web link or...) for the following? > One thing to keep in mind is that Transport > Canada permits a maximum speed of 25mph for > "tourist" excursion trains. > (Unless your passenger equipment is at full > Amtrak/VIA standards). Thanks; John Stewart ovlsme@mainframe.dgrc.crc.ca |
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| Author: | Allen [ Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Comparing a 2-8-0 to a diesel |
> Allen; > Can you give me a reference (document #, or > web link or...) for the following? > Thanks; > John Stewart It's part of the Railway Saftey Act (of all places), and overseen by a committee from the RAC. The passenger appendix alone is 2 huge binders of material. Not sure if there's a web link but printed versions of the RSA are available from Transport Canada, and if you're a member of the RAC, you can get a copy of the Passenger Working Group documents and standards. I think RAC also sells documents to non-members. |
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