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 Post subject: Siding for single sheathed boxcar
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:42 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:42 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Airville, PA
At the Maryland & Pennsylvania Railroad Preservations Society we are beginning to plan for the restoration of Ma & Pa toolcar X-11. X-11 was modified in the Ma & Pa shops from an NJI&I single sheathed boxcar. The original siding was horizontally applied tongue and groove boards with actual dimension 5-1/8" wide by 1-1/2" thick. The siding is in deteriorating condition and most or all will need to be replaced. About 60 pieces approximately 17'2" long will be required.

Any advice on most suitable wood species and potential sources of supply in the mid-Atlantic region would be appreciated.

Craig Sansonetti


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 Post subject: Re: Siding for single sheathed boxcar
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:15 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Hickory, NC
Craig-

On our Lawndale car, which uses vertical tongue and groove boards, we had our boards custom-cut and made to match the originals exactly. Our boards are not nearly as long (just under 7') or as wide (closer to 4")

We opted to use Cypress, which is more expensive than Pine or Poplar, but is a far better grade of wood and less prone to warping and expanding/contracting than other woods as well.

We had custom knives made to duplicate the pattern of the original. These knives ran about $500.

After receiving the wood, we let it dry 6 months indoors before cutting it and installing it on the car.

If you are interested in the mill we purchased the wood from, I'll dig up the supplier for you.

Matt Bumgarner


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 Post subject: Re: Siding for single sheathed boxcar
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 497
Location: Northern California
In the Western Railway Museum collection there are several single sheathed boxcars. The siding is yellow pine. Getting the proper siding should not be a problem for a good mill. The problem will be paying for it.

If you read on the design issues with the single sheathed boxcar, you will find that keeping the siding tight so it would not leak was a major concern. When the siding is applied it will not be fully dry. The subsequent drying and shinking of the wood will result in the joints opening up. On a single sheathed car this will let water in and fine bulk commodities, like grain, leak out. There are a number of design features on the single sheathed cars to try and over come this leakage problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Siding for single sheathed boxcar
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
John Mitchell at GR Mitchell's in Refton, PA, does all of Strasburg's custom milling. John is good to work with, knows his woods and understands budgets.

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 Post subject: Re: Siding for single sheathed boxcar
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
David Johnston wrote:
If you read on the design issues with the single sheathed boxcar, you will find that keeping the siding tight so it would not leak was a major concern. When the siding is applied it will not be fully dry. The subsequent drying and shinking of the wood will result in the joints opening up. On a single sheathed car this will let water in and fine bulk commodities, like grain, leak out. There are a number of design features on the single sheathed cars to try and over come this leakage problem.


Out of curiosity, what happened with double sheathed cars? It seems like it would be even worse than losing the fine commodities if they slipped between the walls and started to rot.


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 Post subject: Re: Siding for single sheathed boxcar
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
David Johnston wrote:
If you read on the design issues with the single sheathed boxcar, you will find that keeping the siding tight so it would not leak was a major concern. When the siding is applied it will not be fully dry. The subsequent drying and shinking of the wood will result in the joints opening up. On a single sheathed car this will let water in and fine bulk commodities, like grain, leak out. There are a number of design features on the single sheathed cars to try and over come this leakage problem.


And what “design features” might these be? The “design issues” might be more correctly called perceived design issues, because most proved to be non-issues in actual use.

Case in point was the method patented by Mr. Fowler for tightening sheathing boards after they shrink. The patent covers slotted holes in the framing, and a “J” bolt arrangement hooked over all the sheathing boards, so that the nuts on the sheathing bolts could be loosened and the boards drawn up tight. Originated on the CP (Fowler’s employer) the Soo Line bought several series of cars that in 1913, ’14, and ’15 that incorporated the slotted holes, although I’ve never found any evidence of the J bolts. However, by 1920, the Soo was buying single sheathed cars without the slots, as experience had shown that the problem only existed in the designers’ minds. Any cooper, or tank builder, or carpenter versed in millwork could have told them that if you dry the wood to a lower moisture content than it will see in service, it will swell and tighten as it comes into equilibrium with its surroundings. The same goes forany replacement sheathing applied today. After milling, it is going to need to be air dried a couple of years, preferably inside in a heated shop, or kiln dried, so that it is drier than the ambient for the area where the car is displayed. Then it will swell and stay tight, rather than shrink and show ugly gaps.

The only other feature I can think of is “lining anti-bulge plates”, also originated in Canada, IIRC. The span between the posts of the truss is too long for the thickness of the sheathing (properly called lining, because it is inside the frame) down at the floor line where the diagonals are adjacent to the posts. Adding a steel clip riveted to the frame mid-span solved that problem, and using either T&G or shiplap boards kept the rest in line to resist the pressure of the grain.

Incidentally, every edition of the Car Builder’s Cyclopedia from the twenties until the late fifties had drawings of the AAR (earlier ARA, originally MCB) standard lumber sections for siding, lining, and flooring. None of it exactly matches what is commonly available today.

robertmacdowell wrote:
Out of curiosity, what happened with double sheathed cars? It seems like it would be even worse than losing the fine commodities if they slipped between the walls and started to rot.


The lining on double sheathed cars was applied horizontally, with a gap left just above the floor, and also above each purlin in the side framing. The tops of the purlins were worked to a 45* angle, and a cant strip was fastened to the top of the sill, so any lading that got behind the lining would fall out the bottom as the car was unloaded.

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