Over the years, I have kept in eye on the PRR Juniata Narrows and PRR Harbor Springs after being sold by a gentleman in Phillipsburg PA to the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum. I suspect if my memory is close to accurate the cars were moved from the area around Phillipsburg to Altoona about 10-15 plus years ago. The cars are 1938 era classics that ran on the PRR Fleet of Modernism. The Juniata Narrows I believe operated for some time in private ownership as the Reveler ( I believer by Butterworth Tours ) before being officially retired.

The cars have languished for many years before arriving in Altoona ( again about 10-15 plus years ago ) ..however from their appearance, virtually no effort has been put forth to restore or perhaps preserve them. Both cars suffer from side sheet rust, broken windows, and all the typical problems caused by neglect and prolonged exposure.

It would seem as though these cars are unique and do illustrate the 1938 improvements brought together by Raymond Lowey and the PRR however these cars continue to languish with ( from what I can see ) no long term preservation or restoration plans.

It is obvious that at the present, those in the Altoona Museum don't have the facility to perform such an extensive restoration, and for that matter, likely don't have the funds to do a project of this magnitude. However, without an indoor display building ( or for that matter even a storage building ) and with the past and most recent problems that circle the museum, is the only hold out for these cars being the "someday promise" of being stored in a proposed roundhouse on site ?. If that is the case, wouldn't it be better suited to remove cars such as these, that are really poor displays and not ready for the public to view, to a secure indoor location, until long term preservation is in order ?

And if that isn't enough to think about, then you complicate the story, by the museum acquiring the Mountain View, when what is on site already has seen little efforts to restore or simply preserve.

So.. in short, does anyone know if dedicate funding sources are in place for unique cars such as this ?... or... will they remain outdoors and suffer another 10 years of neglect ?

Its not intended to be critical of those in Altoona, more of a simple question about the short term, and long term needs of unique cars in immediate need of attention.

thank you

Dean Levin

Dean,

This is just anoter example for a discusion about private ownership.

But look on the bright side, in about 5-10 years this discusion will go away because all the neglected cars will be dust anyway!

Scott Kwiatkowski

Broken windows let in a lot of rainwater, and show that nobody cares about the car. Graffitti, broken windows, and a general appearance of neglect invite further vandalism. Any piece of railroad equipment car that looks cared for is much less likely to be vandalized.

IF (a big if) the car is still really intact enough to justify the expense, one solution is to pop rivet 20-gauge galvanized sheet metal over the windows. On a smooth-sided car, the sheet metal typically extends about 2" beyond the window opening on each side. You might want to do some test drilling around the window openings to locate structural members under the side sheet that you'll want to avoid having to drill into. We used 3/16" plated steel pop rivets for strength, located near the sheetmetal edge to discourage prying off the sheetmetal. A large manally-powered pop rivet gun (21" long, with compound gear drive, McMaster-Carr p/n 90239A510 http://www.mcmaster.com/#90239a510/=uel38) is needed. Before pressing the sheet metal onto the side of the car, apply a bead of caulking compound at the top and side edges so that the sheet metal seals against the car and won't trap rainwater, but any moisture can still drain out the bottom. Materials cost will be between $600 and $1000 depending on the number of windows to be covered. A small portable scaffold, big enough for two or three people, makes the work go a lot faster than using ladders.

A similar approach can be used in the vestibule to cover the door opening, but here you have to defend the car from vandals standing in the vestibule and attacking the door cover mercilessly with a tieplate or whatever. I prefer to weld a 1/8" thick (about 10 gauge) sheet of steel over the whole door opening.

- Doug Debs

I forgot to mention two other details for a fast job:

1. Get a handfull of short 3/16" drill bits so you're always drilling through the car sides with a sharp bit. This saves a lot of time and energy.

2. Have window sheetmetal covers sheared to size before you start. At Niles Canyon Railway / Golden Gate Railroad Museum, we don't have a sheetmetal shear large enough to shear the length of a 4' x 8' sheet, so I had the shearing done for a small fee by the sheet metal warehouse. This is much faster than cutting 8' of sheet metal with a circular saw or hand-held shears.

- Doug Debs

Isn't the tail car named "Jacks Narrow" and not "Juniata Narrows?"

Yes, Lance, I think it is Jack's Narrows and later, me thinks, Wake Island.

Rob

my mistake.... for some reason Juniata Narrows came to mind... however it is Jacks Narrows which became I believe Samuel Vaugh Merrick to parlor car 7153... Juniata Narrows ( which was also a round end obs of the exact same class, builder, config, truck type, etc ) became William Chamberlain Patterson to parlor car 7152...

honest mistake... as the car's were identical I believe.. as class POS 211A

nonetheless, it languishes in Altoona...

have things gone quiet in Altoona since the change over of management at the museum ? ... Anyone know whats new ? .. ( besides the K4 ) . such as the roundhouse project, the equipment outside, how the local NRHS chapter is doing with the Duquense, or anything positive to report ??

thanks

d