Hi:

A single truck Birney car has been listed on eBay. For details go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Asheville-Trolley-C ... 1|294%3A50

Carolina Power & Light No. 117 was built by Brill and delivered new in May 1927. That is somewhat unusual in itself as by 1927 ST Birneys were a glut on the market and a good used one could be bought for a song. The eBay lister is correct--the car is a rare bird. It has Birney body type AD and to make it even more rare It has double-stream doors at each corner while retaining eight windows per side.

From the photos the body appears to be in decent shape but it most likely has the typical Birney body rot along the bottom of the side sheets and in the underframe cross members.

Thanks!

According to this clip:

http://www.streetcar.org/mim/spotlight/ ... index.html

Charlotte Trolley has plans to restore an Asheville (type?) car.

Sloan

The Asheville Birney body that's owned by Charlotte Trolley is actually car 117; it appears that the number of the car for sale isn't included in the eBay listing. It does look to be the same type, though. I've seen bodies in much worse, and much less complete, condition in museums - but $5000?

Hi Frank:

Having re-read the eBay posting, I see now that No. 117 isn't the car up for auction but the other car that Charlotte has. The posting was confusing (to me) and I am getting on in years...

Yes, $5,000 is a little much we all agree. Hopefully the owner will come down in price after the bidding ends with no bidders. I also hope that the body doesn't get scrapped. With apologies to Seashore Trolley Museum, wouldn't it be nice if we had a truly national transit Museum to save this relatively rare car and lots of $$ to boot to restore it. Maybe a US equivalent of Critch? BTW, I've been a member of Seashore since the mid-1960s and thoroughly support the efforts of this Museum.

The high asking price is similar to the fellow who recently listed a K-10 controller on eBay with a $10,000 asking price. After the first go-around with no bidders he opted for the "best offer" route. One person offered $1,000 for the controller which was rejected not surprisingly.

Thanks!

Hi, I am the person selling the Trolley.
As far as rot or rust I don't see any. The trolley was used a home until 2000.
It had a roof built over it,that is why the canvas is still intack.
It also has the ladder on it.
The inside is nice. The floor is original and buffed up real shiny. Still has some original shades, but they are kind of dry.
I took headlight off and have it in storage also have a coin register.
Some of the glass is broken on front and back windows but the frames are good.
I am going out there today and take some pictures of the inside, I'll post them.
I started bid at 5000 because I've been offered that in the past from locals.
I will be happy to answer any questions.

Sorry to be confusing, The trolley is the same as Charlottes #117 .but is not #117

I don't know that the number is on this trolley.
I tried to strip the paint where I thought the number would be but no luck.

David,

Thanks for posting, and additional photos of the car would certainly be appreciated. If you get any offers through the eBay listing, great! If not, then I'd recommend following up with the local who offered you $5000 (just my two cents). It would be great to see this car preserved - the body looks to be in decent shape - but most trolley museums are hard-pressed to acquire even free streetcar bodies, what with the sizable costs of moving, storing, preserving and eventually restoring them. If there is local interest in preserving the car - enough interest to pay that much money for it - then it may be best for the car to keep it in Asheville. Best of luck!

It is difficult to justify paying much money for an empty shell of a carbody when so much has to be spent on parts and materials, transportation, etc. in order to get the car in presentable and/or operational equipment. The only times we have paid for carbodies are when they are unique and of strong local interest. Usually my price is based on scrap value, what I think they could get if they hauled it down to the scrapyard, which is pretty convincing to most sellers since they wouldn't have to cut up and haul the body. We paid $750 for a 43' double truck Birney car last year and $750 for a 28' Birney in 1996 (which was more than scrap at that time, but it was a local car and no other known examples). We have recently had 2 cars donated and I don't know if we can afford them since hauling would be at least $2000 each. Shipping on the DT Birney was about $4k and shipping on the regular Birney was about $1500.

Bodies are common, operating equipment is worth much more. Complete cars with running gear and interior appurtenances, that's another story. We've had one complete PCC type car donated and our members have purchased 3 others for a couple thousand each (price also based on salvage value).

Yes, it would be nice to see another example of an Asheville car preserved and hopefully the local buyer will use it in a manner not detrimental to the car's historic fabric.

For the seller, I would refer you to Cox's Birney book http://www.telcen.com/streetcars/

Also, our organization has an effort to build new replacement parts for your type of streetcar. You might want to refer your buyer to my website http://www.rplsfaq.com/birney.html. I need to update it since we are into production of the sideframe now. I expect to pick up the first article in two weeks for QA/QC purposes.

AN

Thanks for all your input.
I have post more pictures of the trolley.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0377824491

Are any other examples of a double-door Birney in preservation? It is an interesting variation. I saw a Fox River Line carbody which was a disaster. This one certainly looks worthy of preservation, maybe worth that $750 but hopefully the seller could be interested in the tax write-off of a donation to a worthy non-profit rail museum.

This is a rather unique body style in that it has not only the double sets of doors, but has them at all four corners. The double door Birneys of the Fox River Line, as well as others like the North Shore Line, only had doors at the right hand ends (as looking at the car from the side)

There is a Fox River Birney body, or more accurately the very skeletal remains thereof, in Batavia, Ill. Randy Hicks posted some really interesting pictures on his preservation blog a couple months ago. He had some original pictures from 30 years ago, when the car was in bad shape (not surprising have been out of use for 40 years at that time), and then pictures taken in January of this year, a hulk of twisted metal that is barely recognizable as anything.

Still this is an interesting an unique car, just a bit overpriced unfortunately when you consider what other's have gone for, and then add in the expenses of getting it loaded onto a truck, transported to wherever, unloaded, and then any type of restorations. The seller has the bidding open for roughly another 38 hours at this point, with no bids. Hopefully the car will find a home, it does appear to be in fairly decent shape all things considered. If nothing else, a nice cosmetic restoration job like the Appleton Birney would be a nice thing to see.

I only know of 2 double door Birney cars that have been preserved. Both are of the same style as the North Shore cars, i.e., only slightly stretched from a standard length Birney and with a double door only at the right hand corner at each end. These are:
Conestoga Traction 236, largely restored, at the Mannheim Historical Society, Mannheim, PA.
Sandwich, Windsor, & Amherstburg 212, a body awaiting restoration at the Halton County Radial Railway, Rockwood, ONT.

If you're interested, here is the link to which John Cloos referred above:

http://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2008/ ... um.html#85

That doesn't mean anything. Anyone who wants to win an important auction on eBay, snipes (place their only bid in the closing seconds of the auction).

There is missing a door.
In photo # 7 , you can see on the left the space where the door should be and a board across the bottom half. It had a pop out built there for a refrigerator, I guess who ever did that trashed the door.
The three other double doors are in good condition. They also still have the step that folded up when the door closes.

http://myworld.ebay.com/davz765/