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Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
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Author:  robertjohndavis [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Reading the news about Cuba today, I was wondering if there are any active projects to repatriate locomotives from Cuba via countries with fewer restrictions. I Googled but didn't find much.

Rob
Author:  steamtown observer [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Today's ruling only calls for money to go to Cuban families from individuals and possibly charities in the U.S. It does not allow for goods to come to the U.S. from Cuba. No such policy is likely to happen because the U.S. State Department hold millions (probably by now billions) of dollars worth of claims for property and other assets stolen by Castro, etc. when he seized power. To allow items to leave Cuba without settling these claims would lead to a messy can of worms that no one is really prepared to deal with. In the late 1980's the Soviets settled a lot of similar types of claims, but at pennies on the dollar in order to join certain world trade and financial organizations. The difference was the time was slightly longer (nearly 70 years vs. 50 for Cuba) and how much was anything worth in Russia in 1917? Cuba was a prosperous place until Castro got his hands on it (corrupt, yes but still prosperous) and there are some real assets that ultimately need to be settled. Bacardi Rum and the electric company come to mind, and I sort of remeber that someone still holds the claim for the notes that were unpaid for the Budd RDCs!
Author:  Trevor Heath [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
I wonder if it makes a difference (to the trade laws) that 95% of the steam locos that remain in Cuba were built in the USA in the first place!

Reality is though what is left was "ridden hard and put up wet"

Better projects to be had already in the US I would think.

TH
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
The bitter reality is that this was an incredibly attractive proposition in 1985 or so, when there were enough decent hulks to salivate over. Add another 25 unkind years, and the situation is dire at best. My information is that the derelict hulks back in the weeds were scrapped during last year's spike in scrap prices. Bluntly put, there is no "celebrity" loco awaiting repatriation--no NYC Hudson, no PRR T1, no Erie Pacific, no Milwaukee Atlantic--and even the repatriation of a NYC Hudson would be all but impossible for the time being. The best I've been able to come up with is a Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh 4-6-0 and possibly a NYO&W loco ruin, plus locos that are clones of operating American locos (such as the Sierra's 2-8-2).

The only hope in 2010 or beyond for Cuban steam is preservation on Cuba, or the salvage of locos for frames/wheels/rebuilding in the same fashion/motivation that Disney saved its Yucatan locos for Disney World--not impossible, but not likely, either.

Of course, I'd LOVE to eat crow for this statement in the future.
Author:  whodom [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Bluntly put, there is no "celebrity" loco awaiting repatriation--no NYC Hudson, no PRR T1, no Erie Pacific, no Milwaukee Atlantic--and even the repatriation of a NYC Hudson would be all but impossible for the time being.


Man, that would have made a great photoshop for an April 1st post- a Pennsy T1 in sugarcane train service!
Author:  Frank Hicks [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Bluntly put, there is no "celebrity" loco awaiting repatriation


Any word on the fate of the ex-South Side Rapid Transit 0-4-4T built for the first permanent Chicago elevated line? At one point it had apparently been plinthed in Tocajo, Holguin Province. See http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/magazine/42/index.html for photo.
Author:  Bob Davis [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
From various videos and reports, I would gather that the remaining steam locos would require extensive boiler work to pass US inspections, to say nothing of the running gear being totally worn out.
Being a "juicefan", my interest would be in the former Hershey Cuban electric railway, and here again, my suspicion would be that everything that still exists is in rough shape. One has to admire shop crews that can keep cars and locomotives running for decades with meager resources, but eventually it gets to "jack up the gong (or whistle) and build a new car (or locomotive) under it."
Author:  Ted Miles [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Frank,

I have also wondered about that Chicago Elevated locomotive.

I think it and the one from the ?Northwestern Railway? that is at the Museum of Transport in St Louis are the only elevated locomotives left.

i am glad that locomotive finilly had its paint restored. It had been down in Mexico and was displayed for years with the Mexican paint job; but a sign saying it was from a Chicago Elevated Railroad.

Sadly I do not think there are any of the New York elevated steam locomotives left.

Years ago there was an article in TRAINS or someplace about an Elevated passenger car from 1900 or so at the Gettysburg Railroad in Pennsylvania.

Does anybody know if it still exists? That car should be in a museum with indoor storage! What a survivor.

Not to steal the thread; but everybody else does. The Western Railway Museum has a pair of New York Elevated passenger cars (Gilbert, 1887) that went west for the Richmond Shipyard Railway. One of them runs; and now the second car is coupled to it in Car Barn Three. The Shop guys are repairing the board and batten woodwork and putting decorated glass back into the window sash.

Ted Miles
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Ted Miles wrote:
Sadly I do not think there are any of the New York elevated steam locomotives left.


Well, there are the three that sit forlornly on the tundra about thirty miles east of Nome, Alaska, out of service and abandoned since 1911, but these are even rougher than the one in Cuba.

Anyway, they've been there so long now they are considered part of the landsacape. See:

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/13577
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/t ... ska13.html

In the second link it appears that there is now a walkway so the tourists don't have to get their feet wet slogging through the tundra.

Dennis
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
I can confirm that all ex-NY, Manhattan, Brooklyn, etc. Elevated 0-4-4's are listed on the "former" rosters of the Cuban steam master list I have, meaning they no longer exist. Same as the Phila. & Reading Camelback, the H&BTM 25, and other fantasy dreams. The Chicago South Side loco is still listed as "preserved" for what that's worth (Castro's word, maybe?).
Author:  Alan Maples [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Ted Miles wrote:
Years ago there was an article in TRAINS or someplace about an Elevated passenger car from 1900 or so at the Gettysburg Railroad in Pennsylvania.

Does anybody know if it still exists? That car should be in a museum with indoor storage! What a survivor.


Thread drift to be sure here, but yes, Sloan Cornell did have a car from an Elevated line (actually two of them) at the Gettysburg RR. He bought them for his first venture, the Penn View Mountain RR. They were carbodies only, which he mounted on Pennsy caboose frames & trucks. At least one made it to the Knox & Kane Railroad. It was sold at the auction last fall and may or may not still exist. It was in very poor condition.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1287370

Alan Maples
Author:  Les Beckman [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The best I've been able to come up with is a Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh 4-6-0 and possibly a NYO&W loco ruin, plus locos that are clones of operating American locos (such as the Sierra's 2-8-2).



I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the ex-Southern Railway 2-6-0. This Mogul was built by Cooke in 1891 (s/n 2114) for the Evansville & Terre Haute Railroad as their number 50, then became Louisville, Evansville & St. Louis #50, and then to the Southern as their #2100 in 1900. It became Augusta Southern #21 in 1912, then Georgia & Florida #21 and finally sold to Cuba in 1917. According to author Adolf Hungry Wolf, it was supposedly being completely rebuilt in 1996.

Les
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Les Beckman wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The best I've been able to come up with is a Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh 4-6-0 and possibly a NYO&W loco ruin, plus locos that are clones of operating American locos (such as the Sierra's 2-8-2).



I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the ex-Southern Railway 2-6-0. This Mogul was built by Cooke in 1891 (s/n 2114) for the Evansville & Terre Haute Railroad as their number 50, then became Louisville, Evansville & St. Louis #50, and then to the Southern as their #2100 in 1900. It became Augusta Southern #21 in 1912, then Georgia & Florida #21 and finally sold to Cuba in 1917. According to author Adolf Hungry Wolf, it was supposedly being completely rebuilt in 1996.

Les


That one has been moved to Havanna for a proposed railway museum. It is now sitting on a section of track.
Author:  survivingworldsteam [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Ted Miles wrote:
Sadly I do not think there are any of the New York elevated steam locomotives left.


Well, there are the three that sit forlornly on the tundra about thirty miles east of Nome, Alaska, out of service and abandoned since 1911, but these are even rougher than the one in Cuba.


There is also the remains of #156 (Baldwin 6488/1882) on the south shore of Lake Verret near Morgan City, LA. It is mainly the boiler barrel and a few other bits; it was ran off the tracks by a drunken engineer; and stripped for parts or scrap.

Several of these ended up in the swamps and woods of Louisiana; and several more may still be there; awaiting discovery. I was told about a locomotive someone was shown by their father in a remote location in the woods of NE Louisiana; his father is too feeble to visit the location now, and he has no idea where it was. But he remembered the Baldwin builders plate; and his discription sounded like an ex-elevated railway Fourney.
Author:  Tim Gautreaux [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Any active locomotive repatriation projects from Cuba?
Do you call this a locomotive? Looks like a junk fragment to me.
http://www.attakapasadventures.com/imag ... motive.jpg
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