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Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27567		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
Wholda thought I'd get a story about tourist railroading from Progressive Railroading?

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/news/article.asp?id=20576

The Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad recently announced plans to launch an advanced Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) audio system on its excursion trains, which operate between Cleveland and Akron, Ohio.

Developed by AudioConexcus Inc., the system provides passengers tour commentaries triggered by GPS waypoints that describe various sights they see on the trip, such as the Cuyahoga Valley, Cuyahoga River and Ohio & Erie National Heritage Canalway. Passengers can hear the commentaries by using small wireless receivers and headsets. The system has been configured to accommodate 16 cars.
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
They probably mean AudioConexus http://www.audioconexus.com/ (and that's the first I've heard of the outfit)
Author:  Stationary Steam [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
That technology is eons ahead of the usual extremely annoying onboard PA systems with the conductor saying god knows what, since all I can hear sounds like what grownups sound like on Peanuts. Womp, womp, wooomp, womp.
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
I wonder what exactly they purchased. I went to the website (I linked above) and there was too much marketing-speak for me to divine what the product actually *was*. Any ideas?
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
More info, from the Akron Beacon-Journal via Dave Mears' "Weekly Rail News":

"Ohio’s Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad introduced a new headset audio tour system for passengers. The new system narrates about attractions along the train’s route. The system, which uses a global positioning system to activate narrative as an attraction is approaching, was made possible by a $350,000 federal grant."
Author:  rbarcus [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
Wow! That's quite a price tag!
Author:  Stationary Steam [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
Now how can such a system cost $350,000? A GPS unit linked to a mp3 player with a headset is all this is.
Author:  Gary Gray [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
Stationary Steam wrote:
Now how can such a system cost $350,000? A GPS unit linked to a mp3 player with a headset is all this is.


It's simple really, the same type of economics that we are dealing with in our Virginian Ry. station restoration project. Besides the actual hardware, the grant is paying for several feasibility studies by gov't certified consultants, request for proposal documents by said certified consultants, architectural survey of the passenger cars to make sure that their historical integrity is not compromised by hiding a GPS receiver in the electrical locker, certification by a qualified contractor that there is no asbestos within 2 miles of the train, a full EPA study to make sure that there will be no impact on the endangered Cuyahoga wombat...........etc, etc, ad nasuem. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the use of goverment grants. If Cuyahoga Valley didn't get the grant they would just waste it somewhere else. It's simply that the bureaucracy is such that if you're using goverment funding, the project is going to cost 4 times as much and take 8 times as long as if you could just write a check for it.
Author:  zugmann [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
The system has been configured to accommodate 16 cars. -- from the article.

So you have enough headsets for 16 cars. I would assume that they will be installing a GPS receiver in each car. And of course you have to actually go out and plot the GPS points, test and retest to make sure all works.

Yeah, I can see how it approaches 350K real fast. Nice to see someone adopting some of this real cool GPS/GIS technology. (that darn T-word).
Author:  Stationary Steam [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
The problem that I see with the technology costing 350K is that it effectively prices itself out of consideration for anyone who does not have a government grant to pay for it. Isn't 350K also half the cost of a small steam loco restoration?
Author:  Howard P. [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
The amounts of money that make us all drool actually are equivalent to rounding errors in government funding terms.

Howard P.
Tight Belt, CT
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
Howard P. wrote:
The amounts of money that make us all drool actually are equivalent to rounding errors in government funding terms.

Hey, that's my money you're talking about there!

But that's not why I dislike government funding. Actually it's OK for this project: limited in scope, peripheral to normal business, and a slam-dunk deliverable.

Stationary Steam wrote:
The problem that I see with the technology costing 350K is that it effectively prices itself out of consideration for anyone who does not have a government grant to pay for it.


Just because they chose to gold-plate it doesn't mean you couldn't zinc-plate it. Open systems are your friend.
Author:  RCD [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
Wow $350,000 federal grant we at the SFTM need a new carbarn and we have what about $6,000. But thous people really needed it for something I could pull of by hooking up an Mp3 Player and a Playstation Portable with a GPS reciver and hook it into the PA system THATS RIGHT THE THING YOUR KIDS HAND HELD VIDEO GAME COULD BE HACKED TO DO THIS. The fact this could be done so cheaply baffles me. Save a rotting steam locomotive no chance but this WOW GOOD JOB No need for a voleenteer to read off that stuff on the PA now.
Author:  wjstanley [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
I stumbled upon this threaded discussion about the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad so I thought this was a great opportunity to answer some earlier questions regarding the technology. I hope this is of assistance for those who are interested in learning more.

The GPS Digital Audio Systems are solid state (no moving parts) specifically designed for rugged transportation environments. GPS Audio Tour systems are installed in each train car. Tour commentaries are triggered by GPS waypoints at precisely the right moment, regardless of whether passengers are located in the front or back of the train.

Designed specifically for mobile applications where portability and flexibility are essential on a train, the wireless tour solution removes the operational and visitor restrictions affiliated with hardwired solutions. To summarize, passengers can freely move around train cars while listening to the experience using a wireless receiver and headset.

Additionally, teleloops have been provided for the hard of hearing. A teleloop connected to a wireless receiver provides an audio signal that is transmitted directly to a passenger's hearing aid.

The software to support the experience provides train operators with the flexibility to quickly and easily remove, add, or change GPS waypoints along the route. GPS waypoints are directional, meaning that commentaries can be triggered based on the direction the train is moving. In summary, the same GPS waypoint can be used to trigger either eastbound or westbound commentary for example.

All of the content and the GPS "play list" resides on the system. No operator intervention is required. There is also the option of providing tour commentaries over a PA system but this means that all passengers (at the front and back of the train) will hear the tour commentary at exactly the same time. This can be problematic on trains with many train cars - particularly when the commentary is location specific.

I hope this helps.

Warm regards,
Jonathan Stanley
Author:  Randy Gustafson [ Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cuyahoga Valley Implements GPS Narration
OK, so what's the cost drivers specific to the concept?

1) Length of route - a lineal expense based on how long = proportionate dollars?
2) number of cars equipped.. * seats .. number of headsets & transmitters?
3) Fixed cost software and narrative charge (not length or volume based)
4) any system access or rental charges?
5) How 'portable' is the system between cars?

I was down at the Harley Davidson plant factory tour in York, PA, and that is the best factory tour ever - mostly because they spent the bucks and made sure that everybody on the tour had a wireless radio earpiece. Clear as a bell. Anybody doing a shop tour, etc. ought to see that place. The single earpiece made it so you could hear, yet still experience the racket of the factory floor. Rule applies to trains.

Because of that, the wireless audio and the hardware, not necessarily the whiz-bang of the automatic GPS - is what intrigues me as the 90% of the bang here.
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