I have a 36" gauge 5-ton Plymouth that is in need of a new clutch and some possibly substantial work on its engine (an ancient 6 cylinder that no one has yet been able to ID). The locomotive was set aside due to a useless clutch over 20 years ago and a lack of a cover on the exhaust froze the engine.

Does anyone know of a person/shop/company that has experience working on Plymouths or would be will ing to work on one?

Thanks

Jason Midyette
Niwot Colorado

(For those who ar curious, the locmotive is a Plymouth FLH 2, bldr# 3784, built in May 1935. It came from the DuPont dynamite plant in Louviers, Colorado and then went to the Sundown & Southern (a private railroad near Hudson Colorado). Where it was before Louviers I do not know)

Common engine options in Plymouths of that era would be Buda or Climax. With an H in the model number Hercules is also a possibility (as best I can tell, the first two letters are the size/series assuming the same engine the first was built with... the third letter designates an alternate engine (C=Climax, D=Diesel) the number designates the cab style. Generally the final "2" means the loco has a low cab for quarry work.

Williams distribution now owns Plymouth. They so far have not been able to supply parts for pre WWII locomotives.

In either case they are most closely retailed to tractors or forklifts, so mechanics with experience in old forklifts or tractors would be able to work on this as well. Since you are located in Colorado on the edge of the front range, I would look for a tractor mechanic.

Parts are can be a problem. Hemmings Auto News is a source particularly the printed version... (http://www.hemmings.com/) Google "tractor restoration" for a start. I think you will find there is a developed community dedicated to restoring tractors...


Good luck, we have a similar but larger DL-2 locomotive... It runs but needs a clutch as well. In this case the clutch is a multi plate dry style. I am trying to source aspestos fiber material for clutch discs... We have to rebuild our governor and carb.. that should be easy when the time comes. Of course we are now far from farms, farmers, and their knowledge.

LeRoi gas engines were also used, including a custom, Plymouth only, 6 cylinder design that had a 7th, smaller cylinder for the air compressor, protruding at an angle on 1 side of the crankcase, between the 3rd and 4th engine cylinders.

Jeff

Continental engines were also used in some smaller Plymouths. I second the recommendation of finding a good tractor mechanic - preferably an older one or one who works on antique tractor restorations. A good source of information is the Yahoogroups "Railcritters" list. Jay Reed, who frequents that forum has written several reference books on switchers and has copies of most of the Plymouth records. He might be able to ID the engine by the build number, if it is the original.
J

During one of our mobilizations for restoration of one of the Grove Farm Homestead Museum locomotives in the early 1980's, we purchased a government surplus 120 cfm rotary screw air compressor with a Hercules diesel. The reason it was surplused by the government was a pinhole leak in the oil cooler. In less than a day that infirmity was corrected, but a few diesel engine parts were required for complete, reliable functionality.
Nary a diesel parts supplier on Kauai nor Honolulu could help. In that Hawaii and especially the outer islands are for all practical purposes "third world countries" as far as industrial supply parts are concerned, (not even black pipe is available commercially on Kauai) this was not surprising. However, when we started striking out with mainland suppliers, it got downright disconcerting.
Before getting truly frustrated, I asked for sage advice from the Grove Farm Plantation bulldozer repair shop Superintendent, Chet Holtwick. Without even stopping to think he directed, "Go down to Pacific Machinery and tell them you have a "WHITE" diesel engine and give them the same model and serial numbers you have and you won't have any problem. White bought out Hercules a long time ago but still services the Hercules models."
Lo and behold, all the parts we needed were stocked a few miles down the road, after being told by the same people they had never heard of a Hercules diesel engine.

This is one of the foundational experiences that helped form one of my “Principles for Successfully Solving Impossible Problems.” That being:
“If you want the RIGHT ANSWER, you have to ASK THE RIGHT QUESTION.”

PS John Deere tractors use case hardend pins and bushing in nominal "inch" sizes that work in Baldwin spring rigging and brake rigging. The JD pins and bushings are stock items in all sizes even on Maui! Usually only the length has to be modified.

I have three friends with operable Plymouths, contact me by PM or e-mail and I'll get you contact info. None of these locos were ever in need of that much work, however.

Depending how you intend to operate the locomotive, you may want to think about repowering it with something more maintainable... I recall a quote to the effect that finding a pre-WWII Plymouth with the original engine would be rare.

Hercano Propulsion in Newark, OH, is a good source for Hercules parts and info it it turns out you are lucky enough to have one of these.

If you could post good photos, perhaps someone here can ID your engine.

Thank you everyone for the information. As suggested, I have attached some photos of the locomotive and its engine, perhaps these will lead to an ID on the engine type.

Jason Midyette

Recieved the following info via the "Railcritters" list. If the engine is the original, it is a Hercules. Also appears that Dupont was the original owner.
Jason, I have back channeled you some additional information that may be useful.
J
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Being an FLH, it that locomotive has its original engine, then it ought be a Hercules (that's what the "H" in FLH stands for). If so, and in as poor a condition as it sounds, it might be toast - Hercules has been gone since the '50's and parts are scarce.


There is a shop that specializes in Plymouth, namely Plymouth Locomotive Service (contact them at: pls@plymouthlocomotiveservice.com) but if it is just a matter of rebuilding the engine and clutch, a more local shop might be more advisable. Actually, finding somebody that works on Hercules engines would be the better choice, if such a shop could be found.

With best regards,

Jay Reed
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Plymouth #3784 was built new for DuPont at Louvires, CO. Plymouth used
standard components such as engines and clutches so anybody that does
truck work should be able to work on it if they can get the parts......... I forgot to mention that a very good source of information and help on
old engines and clutches is your local antique car or tractor club. The
machinery used in Plymouth locomotives was off the shelf technology for
the day.


John T.

I see some Hercules-like features, but some differ from the DOOC diesel I have.

If it's a Herc, look for the serial number engraved on the side of the block, near the front of the engine, just below the head gasket. I think ours is on the right hand side when facing the front of the engine.

If it is a Hercules, you can also use Oliver Tractor resources as some of those tractors/crawlers were powered by Hercules engines. Both ended up as part of White. Hercules actually survived into the early 80's but I understand that near 100% of 1960s-70s production was for military use. They were rugged but that priced them out of commerical use.

Advertised Hercules/White engine parts:

http://www.ssbtractor.com/