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| Was "Pony Shoe" - Now "Unfunded Liability on the Back 40" https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27675 |
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| Author: | wesp [ Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Was "Pony Shoe" - Now "Unfunded Liability on the Back 40" |
Let me start a thread in response to the wanderings over on the "pony shoe" thread.... Quote: My comments were directed at the neglected rusting hulk out in the back 40 that nobody has touched in years, and with no real plans for doing anything, not a car that's actively being preserved. > Just seems like a short term solution to a long term problem. Yes, that was suggested as the first step, not the last... ""Cocoon" the car / locomotive / whatever until you get the time, money and manpower for a restoration." Or, I could have added, until you realize that's not an option and decide to take alternate action on the car. In any case, it's a starting point. Based on my experience with the simultaneous restorations of Johnstown 352 and TARS 678 at National Capital Trolley Museum, I think it is fair to say that the average "cocoon" in the proverbial back 40 represents at least $250,000 and/or a minimum of 5 years to bring back to life. So if you use that as multiplier you can begin to see the unfunded liability of what lies ahead for all of us. You may quibble about the multiplier, but do the math and see what we have collectively obligated ourselves to care for under all of those tarps, sheds, etc. So what process should there be to determine when/how something is deserving of addition to the liability side of the restoration balance sheet? Wesley |
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| Author: | Randy Hees [ Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Was "Pony Shoe" - Now "Unfunded Liability on the Back 40" |
I worked up a budget for the narrow gauge wooden box cars at Ardenwood… We have 5, 4 arrived as bodies, the last complete, except for brake beams. These are early low tech cars, link and pin draw heads on three, knuckle couplers on two, only one with airbrakes. The cars share many common parts so pattern work for new castings is less. We have a supply of usable salvage parts from West Side Lumber, along with some of their patterns saving more money. We are a volunteer group so no salaries… just donated labor. We have restored on, including building a new set of 10 ton Carter swing motion trucks from scratch. The complete car has had some siding replaced and we have made the patterns for the missing brake parts. We have done some stabilization and investigative work on the others. We figure when complete, our 5 low tech wooden box cars will cost about $380,000 when done, plus roughly $100,000 worth of indoor track space. This for 5 cars which cost about $1,200 to acquire, and maybe $7,000 to move to our site… Our simple passenger cars (we have three, one restored) will cost us about the same $350,000 or so) when done… plus track space… We all need to remember that that really cool boxcar and passenger car you have your eye on carry additional costs beyond the couple of grand to move the car to your site… |
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| Author: | artschwartz [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Was "Pony Shoe" - Now "Unfunded Liability on the Back 40" |
Several points: The most important question is not the cost of restoration but the cost of protecting a piece of equipment from further deterioration. It is impossible to predict the resources available for restoration over a long period of time. I know of cars that have been awaiting restoration for 50 years, but being stored indoors, have not deteriorated substantially in that time. A cosmetic restoration of a car to where it is a presentable display is generally a lot less expensive than a full operating restoration. Particularly in a larger collection, there is no need for every piece of equipment to be operable. I sugggest that an important step in an evaluation of any collection is to determine whether a piece of equipment is appropriate for regular operation, occasional operation or static display. Why spend money to make something run if it will never be used. I personally feel that duplicate or near duplicate pieces of equipment should be the most likely candidates for disposition. In conducting tours, I have even had visitors ask "Why do you have 2 of them" and have had to restrain myself from the used car salesman response, "Have I got a deal for you". I find particularly annoying the response to the duplicate car question "We need to display them in 2 different paint schemes". Some cars are in collections because the are favorites of one or two people. That is fine if the same people will restore the car as a labor of love. However, it is likely that once "Ol' Joe" passes on, that his pet unrestored hulk will end up for sale or in a scrapyard. |
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| Author: | Alan Maples [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Was "Pony Shoe" - Now "Unfunded Liability on the Back 40" |
wesp wrote: do the math and see what we have collectively obligated ourselves to care for under all of those tarps, sheds, etc. The gap between finite resources and infinite desires is filled by wishful thinking. Assessing the long term capital needs of a collection should be a regular part of the planning and budgeting process, and should factor into all accession/de-accession decisions. If a museum can reasonably maintain a collection of "X" pieces of equipment, based on funding, manpower and shop resources, then continuing to collect "X +" is probably a bad idea. I recently bought an old coach for $100,000. The car was essentially given to me, but I accepted it with the knowledge that by the time we are done with moving expenses, asbestos abatement, roof repairs, new windows, interior refinishing, upholstery, vestibule work, etc., it will be $100k or more. For this reason I am very selective about what I collect and I have walked away from more than one preservation opportunity. Alan Maples |
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