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Mt. Washington Cog steam?
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Author:  Frederick G. Bailey [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Mt. Washington Cog steam?
Anyone know if the two new Cog diesels went into service on July 1st as planned? What is the status of steam operation there now?

Frederick G. Bailey
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
Odd you should ask. My wife told me, last night, she wants to take the cog railway up the mountain. My understanding is the Diesel is working. I told her "no" for just that reason. I can't print in a public forum what she said back to me.
Author:  Ron Muldowney [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
A good friend of mine and myself made a trip to the Mt. Washington Cog Railway on June 27th. We took the 10AM train as it was steam powered. The first train of the day was diesel powered. It was very mundane to us and it leaves you cold. There were four other locomotives under steam that day. We were told that the other diesels were supposed to be on line in July. It was great to visit the line while it was still mostly steam. That will most likely be my last visit to the cog. The current flyers promote the new diesels and mention that there should be one steam powered train a day. I would call ahead to see what the motive power situation is.
Author:  Trevor Heath [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
well,

Never say never...

"Grand Canyon Railway is planning to operate 4960 for several days. The railway is going to experiment with WVO (waste vegetable oil) and is looking to operate short trips out of Williams on Sat & Sun September 5-6 with the last run including a photo run-by. A run to Grand Canyon is planned for Sat, Sept 19th on the regular train.
Ervin H White GCRy Trainmaster"
Author:  jasonsobczynski [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
Good to hear about GCR. Back when I worked there I had strongly suggested the WVO idea to the CMO. He basically said that, "it's not the GCR way"... I had even go so far as to find a supplier in AZ with rail service that could supply the volume needed to fuel the engines all summer as well as the cost of a few good used tank cars.
Funny how some ideas are so far ahead of there time. How different the outcome of GCR steam may have been if my initiative for green had been taken seriously in 2006.

So, does this mean the driving axle bearing problems have been resolved on the 4960???
Author:  greenwichlirr [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
Over on the Mt. Washington Cog Railway website front-page, there is not one picture of the new loco's, and alongside all of the steam photos, this appears in the description:

"Today, when you ride the train you get a rare look at this world gone by, where coal fired dreams and steel rails mapped the course of civilization. "

You would think that since they have such high hopes for the green units that they would want to promote them some way.
Author:  Ron Muldowney [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
I picked up some of the hand out brochures when I was at the Mt. Washington Cog Railway in late June. The green diesel is featured on the cover and on an insert in the middle. Here is item number one under the FAQ section!!!
"The Cog Railway primarily operates clean, efficient biodiesel locomotives. A coal fired steam locomotive will generally be operated early each day. Please consult website for schedule."
I guess the website has not been changed but the hand-outs for 2009 have been. I would call ahead if you want to see steam. I hope that someone will post to see if the other two diesels have entered service. If they are not yet in service, make plans to go up there now while steam still dominates.
Author:  baldwin [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
I was just at the top of Mount Washington on July 20th and as we drove to the top a steam powered train was arriving. Went inside and when we came out a diesel powered train was stopped behind the steam one. Probably be good to call ahead to see what might be running that day.
Author:  softwerkslex [ Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
The ticket ordering page now specifically tells "railfans" that only the 9 am train is guaranteed to be steam.
Author:  KevinM [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
Folks,

I'm a long-time fan of The Cog and have been there 3 times this year alone, most recently, last Sunday. I thought I'd fill in a few details on the power situation up there, for the others on the board who might be interested.

As has been noted, the official ops plan now is only ONE steam trip per day. Typically, it will be the first run of the day at 9AM, although this past weekend, they ran it at 8AM. Because The Cog is fairly remote, it makes it difficult for even most New Englanders to make that first run. I had to get up at 4AM in Massachusetts in order to roll in there 25 minutes before that 8AM train. Also, if you hope to get steam pictures, you have to choose between riding and shooting.

After the first run, the steamer is held in reserve for the rest of the day. The line now has 3 diesel hydraulic locomotives on line. These engines can make the summit in 40 minutes (vs 1 hr & 10 min for steam). That means they have a 2 hr cycle time (vs 3 hr for steam). The railway can therefore run all of their trips in a "normal" day with just 2 locomotives, holding the 3rd diesel in reserve for extra sections, if needed. Only when ridership is extremely high and the line chooses to put extra sections on more than 30% of their trains, will the steamer make any additional trips. Even if they run 2 sections on every trip of the day, you'll not likely see more than 2 steamers hot. The fall does tend to be a very busy time for them however, so I'm sure there will be some days when multiple steam trips will go. Last Sunday, #9 (Waumbek) was the hot kettle, and she made 4 trips to the top, including a spectacular 5PM trip.

More on the power:

The three diesels are numbered M-1 (green w/black trim...this is the prototype), M-2 (all black) and M-3 (red w/black trim). I give these descriptions because the road numbers do not appear (yet) on the engines themselves. All three are basically the same, powered by 600 hp John Deere tractor engines and burning B20 biodiesel. (The line's owner runs a biodiesel manufacturing business, also in NH.) These locomotives require only one cab crewmember and are pretty simple to operate. They start with the push of a button and the operator merely deflects a joystick one way or the other for forward and reverse. The joystick doubles as a sort of "dead man's switch". The machines are heavily computer-controlled and incorporate a lot of safety features. They do all of the braking for the entire train on the descents, whereas the engine and coach typically used separate braking systems in the steam era.

Here's a shot that I took of the newest machine on Cold Spring Hill, a short hike from the base: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 516&nseq=0

Note that she's running without her engine cowlings. Interestingly, all of the diesels ran like that on Sunday.

Needless to say, with the short cycle times, a steam engine would just get in the way, so the railway doesn't mix the power unless they have to. I am hearing that there are plans for at least 2 more diesels.

As for the remaining steamers.... As far as I can determine, there are 5 operable steamers remaining. These are: #2 "Ammonoosuc", #4 "Chocorua"...which currently has the tender and cab from the retired #8, #6 "Kancamagus", #9 "Waumbek" and #10 "Kroflite". As noted, #8 "Moosilauke" has been retired and sits stripped behind the shop. #3 "Agiocochook" apparently needs boiler work and will probably not run again.

With steam ops drawing down, few Cog enthusiasts expect that 5 engines will be maintained. Two or 3 are more likely numbers. The prime candidates seem to be 2 and 9, both of which have feedwater heater mods and seem to take on a lot less coal than the others when they hit the coal tipple between runs. Not sure what this means for the steam crews. They have quite a number of veteran folks whom I see there every time I visit. Hopefully, at least some of their positions will remain.

Finally, here's a shot of little #9 from last Sunday. She seems to be the go-to steamer this year. She's seen here crossing the Ammonoosuc River just after leaving the station: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 85&nseq=14

Let's all hope that steam doesn't completely disappear up there. There are 140 years of history there and it would be a crying shame to lose it completely.

/Kevin
Author:  tomgears [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
If they went to diesel 50 years ago and brought 2-3 steamers back everyone would be thrilled and talking about how great they were. Pikes Peak has seemed to do just fine with diesels for many decades. It seems to be the same story that played out in the 1950's all over America just coming to the mountain a little later. It will be interesting to see how this move impacts ridership. It might be hard to gauge with the economy struggling.
Author:  softwerkslex [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
All of the above results in a huge cost reduction and a shorter ride. Ticket price reduction?
Author:  Dave [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
With the scenery out the window, how many visitors really care what's behind pushing?

dave
Author:  EDM [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
I'm not sure I agree with where the brakeman(?) is riding in that first photo. What if they went on the ground?
Author:  KevinM [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mt. Washington Cog steam?
softwerkslex wrote:
All of the above results in a huge cost reduction and a shorter ride. Ticket price reduction?


The ride price currently sits at $59 for adults, which is the same as it was before the diesels were introduced. I believe it has been stable for at least 3 years. While the actual ride up and down is shorter, the amount of time that patrons are permitted on the summit has about doubled from 20 minutes to 40 minutes. For those who have taken the ride in the past, this is a major improvement.

EDM wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with where the brakeman(?) is riding in that first photo. What if they went on the ground?


The position of the Brakeman on the platform is very typical. With the entire line on wooden trestle and the grades extremely steep at times (37.4% max), a derailment would be a bad day for sure. The Brakeman you see is watching the track like a hawk for any problem. He is especially looking at the cog rail for breaks or foreign objects that could cause the cog to pop out of the rack. When they cross the manual switch at Skyline, that same Brakeman has to make 9 separate moves to line the switch. He then stares at it like one of those "Survivor" puzzles to ensure he's done it correctly. When the train crosses that switch, he watches from the side as the train creeps along. The Coggers are extraordinarly careful people. The one and only fatal Cog accident that involved the public was a derailment at Skyline. It's almost as if there's an unwritten pact among them that such a thing never be allowed to happen again.

Dave wrote:
With the scenery out the window, how many visitors really care what's behind pushing?


This is what I think the owners are banking on. They must have done some marketing studies, not unlike the folks at GCRY. Last weekend, I made it a point to strike up conversations with folks who were waiting around at the base. Most of them did mention the disappointment at not seeing the quaint little steam engines on most of the trains, but in most cases, it wasn't a deal-breaker for them. Perhaps they weren't as bummed as they would have been had there been no steam operations at all. As noted in my original post, anyone who hung around for a while last Sunday got to see four impressive steam departures in glorious weather. You can also watch the progress of the trains on the mountain from the balcony at the station. Even from a distance, a steamer on the hill is awe-inspiring.

I might add that anyone who intends on going up there to see steam should probably rely more on their instincts to pick the day than on the advice of the folks in the ticket office. As a railfan photographer, my primary MO is to ride the train to the summit and hike around shooting pictures, something I've done twice already this year. It supports the railway and gets me what I come for...pretty steam photos. On this particular day, I had studied their ticket sales page as well as the weather. With a perfectly clear, calm day forecast and numerous trips already sold out, my instincts told me there would be some steam trips beyond the first one. I therefore high-tailed it to Marshfield Station to make that 8AM train. When I tried to confirm my suspicions and buy a ticket, the folks in the ticket booth stomped their feet and swore up and down that there would be NO ADDITIONAL STEAM TRIPS beyond that 8AM departure. In doing so, they talked me out of my original plan and talked themselves out of another fare. As I watched that 5PM steam trip traverse Long Trestle in glorious late afternoon light, I vowed to trust my own instincts in the future.
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