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How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
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Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
Lying buried in our "Flimsies" is an excellent multi-part series by Examiner writer Linda Updike--using LOTS of input from the Grand Canyon RR shop personnel--on the down-to-the-frame rebuild of Grand Canyon Railway's ex-Amtrak F40PH 237:

http://www.examiner.com/x-5374-Phoenix- ... locomotive

Six parts so far and counting.

Obviously, the Grand Canyon RR is a professional outfit, and has the resources to farm out rebuilds of EMD prime movers, etc. to a level that even Strasburg might envy. Nonetheless, this is an amazingly technical and detailed article for a mainstream media outlet, in a world where we're always gritting our teeth waiting for hideous "old choo-choo" cliches or errors like calling the alternator the "clutch."

I will note that a similarly-scoped rebuild of one similarly-sized diesel-electric high-speed mainline loco by volunteers in the UK took eight years, even with covered shop accommodations and some professional help.

Image
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
8 year overhaul? Sounds like SN 1005. Long-scope projects tend to get back-burnered a lot for short term projects that need doing. The other thing is, that F40 is just standard 645 stuff lots of shops can rebuild, as opposed to, say, 567A or Alco 244 that takes scrounging.

From reading the article it looks like the vast majority of the content, including photos and much of the article itself, is actually written by the GCRy guys. That would explain its accuracy. I remember when examiner.com was San Francisco's newspaper. Maybe it's been sold to a guy who does sort of a Squidoo thing, serving a self-publishing venue?
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
Quote:
8 year overhaul? Sounds like SN 1005. Long-scope projects tend to get back-burnered a lot for short term projects that need doing. The other thing is, that F40 is just standard 645 stuff lots of shops can rebuild, as opposed to, say, 567A or Alco 244 that takes scrounging.


No, actually the eight-year overhaul of ex-BR Deltic 55009 "Alycidon" was done by nearly-all-volunteers in a spare facility in the middle of Britain's largest chemical plant. I had to go through heavy security to visit this loco in 1991 (and one of my camera lenses got left behind in that search, sadly--my fault). It was never "back-burnered" like, say, CP 972 at Strasburg seems to have been by now; it was just a case of take EVERY danged thing apart and renew it (even though the loco in question was probably in the best condition of the ones BR had left to acquire in 1982). Basically "weekend warrior" stuff, but even by UK standards extensive--I mean, how often is, say, an EMD E8 taken apart down to the bare truss, or an F40 disassembled and retrofitted to the standard that this GCRY F40PH is being?
Author:  SZuiderveen [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Quote:
8 year overhaul? Sounds like SN 1005. Long-scope projects tend to get back-burnered a lot for short term projects that need doing. The other thing is, that F40 is just standard 645 stuff lots of shops can rebuild, as opposed to, say, 567A or Alco 244 that takes scrounging.


I mean, how often is, say, an EMD E8 taken apart down to the bare truss, or an F40 disassembled and retrofitted to the standard that this GCRY F40PH is being?


How about the E9B on the Wisconsin and Southern two years ago??

Steve
Author:  RCD [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
So that's what I have to look forward to. Also $1M I was thinking under $700,000 would be the normal price.
Author:  PCook [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
In 2001 to 2005 the MBTA had the 1025 and 1050 class "stretch" F40's rebuilt. The scope of work included tearing the unit down to the frame and detrucking it, cleaning the carbody structure, fixing or replacing all rusted and corroded components, overhaul the 16-645E3C main engine and all electrical rotating equipment, replace cabling, replace carbody panels, separate the engine room from the HEP generator room, install fluid holding tanks, install enhanced sound insulation, rebuild the trucks, install new cab signal system, install a new CAT 3412 HEP unit, install a new HEP roof hatch assembly, and repaint the unit. On return, the units had to pass the acceleration/braking course tests and also successfully run the cab signal course tests before they could haul passengers.
Author:  NH0401 [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
Quote:
Long-scope projects tend to get back-burnered a lot for short term projects that need doing.


Precisely...

I know of an Alco 244 powered unit stripped to the frame, sandblasted and primed, structural carbody repairs, re-cabled, air brakes renewed....and so on. This project was begun in 1987 !!

Unfortunately, the ravages of time, coupled with the increasing cost and decreasing supply of 244 material, along with constantly changing organizational priorities and ever diminishing resources may conspire to eliminate any realisitic chance of completion.

DPK
Author:  Randolph R. Ruiz [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
robertmacdowell wrote:
From reading the article it looks like the vast majority of the content, including photos and much of the article itself, is actually written by the GCRy guys. That would explain its accuracy. I remember when examiner.com was San Francisco's newspaper. Maybe it's been sold to a guy who does sort of a Squidoo thing, serving a self-publishing venue?


Pretty off-topic, but the San Francisco Examiner (as well as a number of other newspapers named "Examiner") is owned by a reclusive billionaire formerly of Denver. I am not sure if this particular newspaper is one of them, but it would be rather "synergistic" if it was.
Author:  trolleyira [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
That "reclusive Billionaire" also owns Xterra, owner of the Grand Canyon Railway. In addition they are the concessionaire for many of the western national parks.
Author:  tomgears [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
This is a good example of a top to bottom rebuild of a functional investment. Keep in mind that they are a business and this is an investment and nothing more. They expect to run the wheels off of it for a number of years pulling trainloads of tourist going to the South Rim. They are not a museum and are not doing it because they love F40s, it is strictly business. They want to move people to the canyon in a safe, reliable, and efficient manner and make a buck doing so. The cost of the rebuild should pay for itself if they have done their math right.

So my point:
there is a lot to be learned from these guys
don't be quick to compare this to other diesel projects at IRM, Portola, or Reading
really appreciate the privately restored power out there as it is not a cheap hobby
Author:  PCook [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
As far as "preserving" F40PH locomotives is concerned, an F40PH is one of the simplest locomotives to convert for "visible" display, removal of the battens, side panels, and access doors is not complicated, and when removed they provide an excellent view of the machinery. An F40PH being "restored" could easily be used as a visible locomotive display even while the work is in progress.

As far is running one is concerned, can a museum afford the fuel consumption and the potential for up to a $45,000.00 repair bill if there is a catastrophic failure of the turbocharger? I can think of a lot of classic locomotives that are much cheaper to operate in a heritage railroad environment.

PC
Author:  JohnC [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
NH0401 wrote:
Quote:
Long-scope projects tend to get back-burnered a lot for short term projects that need doing.


Precisely...

I know of an Alco 244 powered unit stripped to the frame, sandblasted and primed, structural carbody repairs, re-cabled, air brakes renewed....and so on. This project was begun in 1987 !!

Unfortunately, the ravages of time, coupled with the increasing cost and decreasing supply of 244 material, along with constantly changing organizational priorities and ever diminishing resources may conspire to eliminate any realisitic chance of completion.

DPK


That sounds like the FA-1 to me...Its too bad. Will it ever run again???
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How To Rebuild an Amtrak F40PH In a Hurry
JohnC wrote:
That sounds like the FA-1 to me...Its too bad. Will it ever run again???


The exceedingly tragic part is.............. there are a COUPLE of such Alco FA's to choose from.......... can you be more specific? <:-/
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