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| EMD F45 'Preserved' https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27975 |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | EMD F45 'Preserved' |
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?1,1992379 |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
First the C415 at Fife and now this one... Hope this new trend of "preservation" by saving the shell doesn't catch on! |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
The C415 had been vandalized to the point where it never would been able to run again. As for the F45, call it 'adaptive re-use', if you prefer. I think it is possible to de-couple the concept of 'preservation' from the concept of being 'able to run.' DPK |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
> The C415 had been vandalized to the point where > it never would been able to run again. Oh really? No way it could have been restored? Just not possible? Funny, Dick Samuels seemed to think he was up to the task, and I happen to think he could have done it if they had let him try. By the way... Ever seen shots of Doyle's PA before he started? Good thing you didn't take a look at that one, as you'd certainly have told Doyle it would never run again either. It made the C415 look good by comparision. Fortunately, he didn't know that, so he's well on the way to getting her back in service. Had it been a common loco I would have no issue with what was done. But it was a rarity, and there was an offer from a reliable source to trade for another locomotive, at no cost. It saddens me, and a lot of others, to think of what's been lost. |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
> As for the F45, call it 'adaptive re-use', if you prefer. Yes, much better term... > I think it is possible to de-couple the concept of 'preservation' > from the concept of being 'able to run.' Certainly! I can think of many engines that I would consider to be part of "preservation" that aren't able to run. We can start with the 1401 and John Bull as prime examples. I don't have any issues with how they've been preserved. (Granted, I'd like to see 1401 run again, but I understand why that won't happen...) But they're intact, with all of the operating parts, or nearly so. What makes them work is still all there, and can be studied and learned from. The C415 is just a shell. Hell, just take a photo, you've got pretty much the same thing! |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
If we're going to throw a fit that this loco was gutted rather than saved for possible operating preservation............... May I point out that other online sources say that the shell of this loco is former Santa Fe 1910, later 5910, later 5960, built by EMD in June 1968, serial number 34046, more recently Morrison-Knudsen 5531, then Utah Railway 9013. So: Save it as a Santa Fe F45, or go ahead and replicate a GN F45? If you really want to force this issue, Montana Rail Link MAY still have one of its four former BN F45's about....... |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Bobharbison wrote: > But they're intact, with all of the operating parts, or nearly so. What makes them work is still all there, and can be studied and learned from. The C415 is just a shell. Hell, just take a photo, you've got pretty much the same thing! Fine. Tell me when the last time someone actually "studied and learned from" the stuff inside of, say, a PRR GG1, the PRR E7 at the RR Museum of Pa., the intact Baldwin or FM at NCTM Spencer, or an intact 0-6-0 stuffed and mounted anywhere else. Heck, considering the Smithsonian picked up the fireless they sent to the B&O with a forklift today, I have to wonder whether that thing's any more than a shell. |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Quote: Tell me when the last time someone actually "studied and learned from" the stuff inside of, say, a PRR GG1, the PRR E7 at the RR Museum of Pa., the intact Baldwin or FM at NCTM Spencer, or an intact 0-6-0 stuffed and mounted anywhere else. Heck, considering the Smithsonian picked up the fireless they sent to the B&O with a forklift today, I have to wonder whether that thing's any more than a shell. Good point... So why are we bothering to preserve the stuff in the first place? If nobody is learning anything from having it around, why do we do it? Why not scrap it all and put in Walmart with a plaque outside saying "former site of the XY&Z locomotive shops" |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: Heck, considering the Smithsonian picked up the fireless they sent to the B&O with a forklift today, I have to wonder whether that thing's any more than a shell. Of course it's just a shell. They don't call them "thermos bottles" for nothing. You were expecting boiler tubes? ;) |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: If we're going to throw a fit that this loco was gutted rather than saved for possible operating preservation... I didn't throw a fit about this one not being saved, since as you mention, there are others left. I simply said that I agree it's not "preserved", as apparently did the original poster, since he put that in quotes. My comment, meant mostly tongue in cheek, was that I hoped the idea of gutting locomotives for this sort of things doesn't take off. It's not the first time it's been done, there is a dentist's office in Spokane, WA made from an F unit (or E) of some sort, and an ice cream parlor in Yakima, WA. If it's the only reasonable option aside from scrapping, then it's acceptable. I do much prefer the suggested term of "adaptive re-use" for what's being done. I do think that when the engine in question is a rarity, it would be better to preserve it intact if at all possible. Granted, we can't save 'em all... |
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| Author: | toober [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Bobharbison wrote: So why are we bothering to preserve the stuff in the first place? For picture shoots. -- Will |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
> For picture shoots. Call Industrial Light & Magic instead! (LucasFilms CGI production facility in case you're not enough of a computer geek to instantly recognize the name.) It has the added benefit of being able to conjure up any engine, real or imagined, in any paint scheme desired, and in any location you want. GG1, Big Boy and 4449 tripleheader over Horseshoe? No problem for those guys. :) |
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| Author: | JMann [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
It looks to me like this F45 is preserved. The frame, trucks and carbody is mostly complete. I'm making the assumption that the brake system and draft gear will be left in place since there is no reason to remove it. So sometime in the distant future this could be returned to operation. It would be a real pain to do but if it was scrapped then it would be impossible to do. The big reason we have so many steam engines to restore is that city's got them for kids to play on. Except for a couple of cases, no city is looking for a diesel to display. So an adaptive reuse like this is a welcome way to preserve the locomotive. As long as it's not turned into a pile of scrap metal there's hope (see http://sp9010.ncry.org/index.htm for an example). |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Bobharbison wrote: Hope this new trend of "preservation" by saving the shell doesn't catch on! In interurbans, when the body survives, they call that "scrapped". |
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| Author: | NH0401 [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: EMD F45 'Preserved' |
Hey Bob, have another cup of coffee. You need it.... Quote: Funny, Dick Samuels seemed to think he was up to the task, and I happen to think he could have done it if they had let him try Yeah, everybody is an expert on Alco. Funy thing is-don't see a single Alco on his roster. BTW, the ballpark on making that thing operation got into the value of a good used SW-1500. From someone who DOES know. Quote: By the way... Ever seen shots of Doyle's PA before he started? Good thing you didn't take a look at that one, as you'd certainly have told Doyle it would never run again either. It made the C415 look good by comparision. Fortunately, he didn't know that, so he's well on the way to getting her back in service. Here we go-invoking the great god of rail preservatiomn Doyle-with whom you are on a first name basis-right ? Do you actuall get to rub shoulders with the great man ? FWIW, not only have I seen those shells before Doyle got his mitts on them-I reduced a similar locomotive down to the same state those PA's were. Big deal . Been there done that. BTW, the idea of transplanting one locomotive into another was NOT the 'great mans' idea. This idea was suggested to me by a former ALCO employee way b ack in 1987 . DPK |
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