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| Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28045 |
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| Author: | superheater [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
I had a few minutes last week (Sat 8/22) while headed North to NEPA, so I stopped in to see how things were progressing with 113. As the project makes steady progress; its important to note this is a tribute to nearly a quarter century of hard work and dedication, unfortunately by some who won't be here to see the fruits of their labor. What has been accomplished under a blue tarp is absolutely amazing. Pennsylvania has become something of an epicenter of operating steam; with Steamtown, Strasburg, the R&N, EBT et al; but in some respects the restoration of this switcher is perhaps the best story. The utilitarian witcher survived CNJ's great purge-that claimed all of its Pacifics & Mikados, its 10 wheeler camelbacks and the rest of its steam fleet (save 592 in Baltimore). As it was, it was fortunate to be of economic value to Locust Summit; whereas 4-6-0 754 went to the scrapper for a lack of something like $5500. Initially, my interest was generated because it was the sole relic of my grandfather's principal employer in the time he was so employed-but the internet allowed me to discover one of the folks bringing it back-was somebody who helped maintained my interest in railroads back in the dark days of the late 1970's-by being the sponsor of the railroad club in my high school-the same person whose metalworking is giving the 113 an authentic voice. Here's the throttle being lifted out steam dome; being worked on. Attachment: 113 08 22 2009 1.jpeg Attachment: 113 08 22 2009 3.jpeg Attachment: 113 08 22 2009 4.jpeg
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| Author: | tomgears [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
Thanks for the update and photos. I am thinking with the boiler mostly back together they were working to get the throttle tight for a good hydro? |
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| Author: | Jersey steam [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
There were some problems with the throttle and they have to be fixed or blanked off for the hydro. Yes, the hydro is not far off. That boiler is almost like new. If you look closely at the check valve, you can see (by the new brass) some of the parts which had to be made for the locomotive. The stack and base are some of the new castings made for this locomotive (lost styrofoam castings). I believe Bob is speaking this weekend at Railfest. That is Bob Kimmel in the center of the bottom photo. He can see more with his finger tips than most of us can see with our eyes. He is really an amazing person. Thanx Superheater for your report. Bernie Perch |
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| Author: | superheater [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
He can see more with his finger tips than most of us can see with our eyes. He is really an amazing person. And one really nice guy, too. Had a nice conversation with him about how he and his family got into the project. |
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| Author: | SteveRG [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
Did the 113 get its current compressor from MCC 385? I remember hearing that somewhere...just can't figure out where. |
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| Author: | junior [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
..."something like $5500".... Are we talking $5500 in todays dollars or 1960's dollars (presuming that is when the 4-6-0 was scrapped)? If the $5500 mark is in the 60's, realize that is equal to about $40,000 in today's dollars. Not exactly chump change. I am doubtful that the CNJ only received $800 for the loco's scrap value (if the $5500 is todays dollar figure of how much it was let go for)...but if so, that IS really sad. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
Trains had a long, personal article about this engine in the 1970's. $5500 was the scrap value of the engine, and storage was an issue too. CNJ wanted the engine off of its property in 30 days after purchase. And I believe Steamtown had not started yet. |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
CNJ #754? I'd love to hear more. I know Don Wood tried to save CNJ #774. Rob |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
I remember the article about Don Wood's love affair with the Camelback 4-6-0. a bittersweet story if there ever was one. I believe he was given the old girl's number plate by a shop foreman. This raises the question, at least in my mind, why so many railroads were eager, even driven, to get the last steam locomotives off their property no matter what. CNJ certainly had places to stash a retired locomotive if they chose to, particularly one with some celebrity to its record. Regarding scrap value, my late father told me that the Long Island got a flat $5,000 for each G5s and H-10s they sold for scrap. In after-thought, we ask why more weren't snapped up. $5,000 was far more than many men earned in a year at the time. I take it the railroads saw the money as part of their immediate savings on the Diesel investment. Last, and I hope I'm not pushing these fellows too much, when might we see the 113 under steam? Any estimates, assuming the hydro goes well? |
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| Author: | junior [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
...which was my point. People post those 1950/60's scrap values of $3-5,000 like they are talking todays dollars, forgetting about inflation. My grandparents bought their just built house in 1948, under the GI bill, for $8,000. (roughly 70K in todays dollars) $5000 was alot of money in those days, which is why this stuff wasn't saved. Sure if you were extretemly rich, you had that money around, but the average Joe, or groups of Joe's did not and could not cough up that much cash back then...hence reason the 774 was not saved. Makes me wonder just how much money Paulsen Spence had to amass a collection of over 30 steam loco's back in those days for his private road. |
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| Author: | superheater [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
This raises the question, at least in my mind, why so many railroads were eager, even driven, to get the last steam locomotives off their property no matter what. CNJ certainly had places to stash a retired locomotive if they chose to, particularly one with some celebrity to its record. You have to understand the responsibilities, incentives and pressures of railroad managers when the decision was made to scrap steam, especially a road like the CNJ. Remember, to an enthusiastic or a historian, a steam locomotive is an "artifact"; to a railroad manager talking to his accountants it was an asset that had to be able to produce enough revenue to make the payments on the equipment trust certificates and all the expenses associated with its operation. Even if it could make a nominal return; the accountants were telling the boss that those nice diesels would allow the railroad to reduce the army of boilermakers and hostlers, the roundhouses which were also draining its coffers. "Celebrity" is not an attribute that generates any additional revenue or reduces any expenses. The ICC had absolutely insane restrictions on the economics of railroads, and they faced increased competitive pressures from trucks and airlines. With a responsibility to make a return to stockholders (or at least minimize the losses), and the government tying their hands as they tried to deal with competition-getting some scrap dollars provided some valuable lucre to pay the nice folks in LaGrange, Schenectady, Philadelphia & Beloit. For a road like the CNJ, the conditions were especially trying. In addition to the fact that the CNJ's most modern power was 2-8-2's; 4-6-2's and Camelback 4-6-0's and the principal freight commodity of the CNJ wash anthracite coal, the market for which was collapsing as it was being abandoned as a source of heating fuel, especially for residences rather quickly in the 1950's. This is the exactly why the Lehigh Valley sent its Wyoming 4-8-4's to scrapper, when they were still relatively new. Why is it so many enthusiasts fail to forget a railroad is a business? |
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| Author: | superheater [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
Why is it so many enthusiasts fail to forget a railroad is a business? Wow that's mangled. Insert "remember" in place of "forget". |
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| Author: | toober [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
Is that $5500 figure accurate? It seems high to me, as back in 1960 new steel was about $120/ton (this from usgs.gov). Steel supply was still pretty high, with all the war surplus still being scrapped. In the late 1950s it was about $80/ton. Still, even at, say, $3000 per old loco, it was a chunk of money for an individual - but not unreasonable for a small group. Buying big hunks of metal is actually not a hugely risky deal as it may seem, as it is generally pretty easy to back out and resell the locomotive back as scrap. It would be difficult to loose your shirt if you bought an old loco back then, given some common sense. But we did managed to save something like 1000? steamers - not a bad survival rate at all. -- Will |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
This is exactly why I am so impressed by the fact that Paul Merriman, a regular working man, took $5000.00 of his dollars he was saving to buy a rag top Caddy and instead bought Southern 4501. Think about how much influnce this act has had on steam preservation in the USA. Who knows what would have happened had somebody stepped up and bought CNJ 774 instead of letting it go to scrap? At the very least we should still have a rare camelback locomotive on display somewhere. What could such a move have done for steam preservation on your favorite railroad? Thankfully there were at least a few such men around at the end of steam. John Bohon |
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| Author: | eldiner [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meanwhile, in Minersville, PA work continues on CNJ 113 |
And how much did the enthusiasts pay to buy the Strasburg RR in the late 50's? Different but perhaps just as noble as saving a single locomotive. |
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