Greetings,

A check of the PACER website for both the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri and the United States Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit indicate that the first round of briefing in this case is ongoing.

As previously discussed, the lower Federal Court granted judgement as a matter of law in favor of Saint Louis County in this ongoing ownership dispute. The R&LHS chapter is appealing the court's ruling.

It appears as if the final brief is due on or before September 18, 2009. I have no indication when oral argument will be. I may go watch, if I am free that day, as the Federal Courthouse is just across the street from my office here in downtown St. Louis.

Yes, it appears that after all the legal manuevers that the actual facts at issue will be heard.

As I've previously posted the folks behind this are very determined and have VERY deep pockets. They are strongly of the opinion that once the actual facts at issue are tried that they will prevail and that the Courts will order the engine returned to them.

Looks like we might actually get to see if they're correct!!

Should be interesting!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Appellate courts do not hear facts, they only rule on whether the trial court committed what is called "reversable error." As such, the 8th Circuit won't "hear the facts" as Mr. Rowland states. Instead, they will determine whether it was proper for the trial court to issue judgment as a matter of law in favor of St. Louis County.

Before a case ever goes to trial, either before a jury or a judge (called a "bench trial") the parties participate in discovery, which includes, but is not limited to, depositions, document production, requests for production of said documents, interrogatories (questions presented to the opposing side). Federal courts have a very stringent discovery process and guidelines, so that there are no "suprises" at trial. As such, there is a good chance that all that has been discovered has been discovered.

If the apppellate court rules in St. Louis County's favor, the chapter may appeal to the Supreme Court. However, from a strict statistical point of view, the Supreme Court takes a small percentage of cases appealed to them, as the Supreme Court has discretion over most of its docket. As such, the legal process may be working itself out on this one.

Thanks for that clarification. I stand corrected and must admit disappointed as I thought the matter was finally going to get tried on the merits not the legalities.

Oh well, it is what it is and at least the subject piece has been given some badly needed cosmetic attention if nothing else!!

Ross Rowland

Pray tell, what facts could be left to be brought out? This thing has been litigated to death, way beyond practicality. Let it die! Spend the big bucks on something worthwhile.

The few folks working on the only other Lackawanna steamer left, the one already in Scranton, sure could use some help form the really deep pockets being mentioned. Just a thought.

You make a very good point Ron. Unfortunatly there is a personal history/connection between 2 of the main players in the lawsuit against the MOT in St. Louis and that specific locomotive and thus it is to some degree a "personal" issue.

Also, in the case of one of the main players I can tell you for certain that he would not support anything that involved the NPS as he feels that what goes on in Scranton is a travesty!!

Other than that yours is a good idea!!

Ross Rowland

It was. The museum won.

dave

Mr Rowland,
people change and management is making good decisions on things up there. It would be nice to see some of that energy spent on this litigation on 565 too. They should bury the hatchet and move on.

On another note: I'm telling you 614 and 3713 would look great stretching their legs down the Cut-off! :)

Steve, I'll pass on your sentiments to the folks involved, though I must tell you there's very little chance it will fall on receptive ears.

As to the big gals stretching their legs on the Cut-Off, I'm in total agreement!!

Ross Rowland

3713 and 614 on the Cut-Off!? Wha...did I miss something here? They're running again? The Cut-Off is done?
Can't WAIT to say those words for real some day (hopefully) in the near future...(we can all dream!)
Mr. Rowland. If that is the case and 614 DOES traverse the Cut-Off one day, just promise us ALL NOT to run her with oil or biodiesel. Run her with good old fashioned American COAL...they way she was MEANT to run.
Sure do miss that ole girl runnin'!
Gettin' back to the topic, would be real nice to have that engine home again on the East Coast where she belongs even if she never runs again. Lets hope the powers that be win the fight ahead of them. Good luck!!

So if the 952 belongs out here in the east, then the C&O 614 belongs in Virginia, Strasburg's 90 in Colorado, New Hope's 40 in North Carolina? I think Mr Rowland, Mr Moedinger and many others would disagree with that.

The DL&W engine issue has been rehashed time and time again. I'd love to see this issue be resolved in favor of MOT (one our country's few truly "national" collections) and have the legal wrangling put to bed once and for all. The only way that engine should ever come east is through a fair, equitable deal that would be beneficial to all involved.

Dave Crosby

what did I miss here? Bring me up to speed.

How long has this lawsuit been pending, anyway?

Just to throw a little more sand in the crankcases....

A PRR e-mail group recently ignited with, erm, "discussion" that the RR Museum of Pennsylvania should undertake to "repatriate" another rare piece the MOT St.Louis has: PRR P5 boxcab electric #4700, the only surviving P5. Many suggested that the RRMusPa should trade/offer the recently acquired Amtrak E60 for the P5.

I undertook to remind those on the list that the museum in Strasburg is the RR Museum of Pa. and NOT the "Pennsylvania RR Museum," and that the MOT asked the PRR for the 4700 fair and square upon its retirement, and that the E60, built in Erie by GE, had just as much right to be there as the 4700.

At least (as far as I know) those PRR fans have better and FAR more productive things to do with their monies and time (like operate a PRR archive and library at the Lewistown, Pa. ex-PRR station) than engage in such lawyer-enriching activity.