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| Tragic News - ATSF 2926 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28096 |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
A story came through on my rss feed about how 2926 has passed the 1/2 way mark and is being reassembled. The last line mentions that member Jim Hills suffered a fall on Saturday and died from his injuries a day later. I don't know how his death was not the main story. Falls are the number one cause of workplace deaths in the construction industry. This might lead to a new look at inspections of these type of operations. Many historic rail shops are not in line with today's safety standards. http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/local/cent ... 0909072105 I am deeply saddened that there has been a death related to the restoration of a steam locomotive. I think everyone should involved in this type of work should take a comprehensive safety class. |
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| Author: | santafeboy [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
This is really sad I know in my line of work we are required to use body harnesses and tie offs on any work area of 3 ft or more I know In my case or in any of my crews case if were caught working without such protection its means automaticly being kicked off site I dont know the circumstances of this case but Im guessing? such protection may have prevented such a tragic outcome |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
Let's not jump to conclusions. Did Mr. Hills fall FROM the locomotive? Or was his fall at a location that was on level ground where safety equipment would not have come into play. Hopefully we will eventually find out the whole story. Either way, the fact the Mr. Hills suffered his fatal injury on site, is extremely sad. My condolences to his family and friends. Les |
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| Author: | Rob Gardner [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
This is not good news at all. What a loss and a tragedy indeed. Most RYPN'ers may not know this, but Jerry Hoffer, of the DRHS group fell from the roof of one of the wooden boxcars at the Silverton enginehouse site and fell onto a pair of trucks. See the link below for more details. NGDF has also posted an update saying he is still in the hospital and awaiting further surgeries. http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,137600 The bottom line is that safety is much, much more important than what we get done during a day's work at the museum or worksite. I don't know the details of the incident in Albequerque, but we must police ourselves even more stringently than we would expect the FRA or OSHA to. In railroad maintenance and construction, Roadway Worker Training requires that we do a job and safety briefing at the start of every day and any time the work task changes throughout the day. Rob Gardner |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
It is very sad a tragic and my heart goes out to his family, friends, and the rest of the 2926 crew. I agree we know absolutely no details about the fall. He could have fallen getting out of his truck in the parking lot. With that being said it is still worthwhile to take a good look at what is going on in your own shop. The biggest areas that cause people to get killed are falls, caught between, struck by, and electrical. Look for these hazards in your shop and think about how you can eliminate (not minimize) them. OSHA frequently uses the phrase "competent person" when it talks about training, analyzing a project, and determining protective measures/equipment being used. Do you have a "competent person" within your organization? What makes him/her competent? I don't want to sound like I am telling anyone what to do nor am I criticizing the 2926 folks or anyone else. I am just offering food for thought. |
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| Author: | sbhunterca [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
Thank you for posting news of these sad incidents. While we don't know either of these men, I would like to pass on condolences to Mr. Hills' family and friends, and to extend best wishes for a full and speedy recovery to Mr. Hoffer on behalf of our restoration crew at RMEO. It is very sad when bad things happen to our preservation colleagues, and I can only imagine how their fellow volunteers must feel. As has been pointed out, fall safety is often overlooked in our training programs. In spite of being trained in fall safety by my employer, I've been guilty of concentrating on train operation safety and not paying enough attention to fall prevention. This will definitely become a high priority at our museum. If anything good comes from these unfortunate accidents, it will be increased awareness of the potential for serious falls and improved safety training at museums and tourist railways across the continent. Steve Hunter VP- Operations RMEO Smiths Falls, Ontario |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
Les Beckman wrote: Let's not jump to conclusions. Did Mr. Hills fall FROM the locomotive? Or was his fall at a location that was on level ground where safety equipment would not have come into play. Hopefully we will eventually find out the whole story. We have a volunteer at a local-ish railroad museum that collapsed and hit his head while landscaping on the ground. I'm told he is home and much better now, but he was very near death for a while, as it turned out. It turned out he had a stroke that caused the initial fall, and the injury exacerbated the situation and treatment. No, we can't assume anything. |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
Its always a sad day when we lose one of our own. My condolences. It is important to state at this juncture that OSHA regulations do not apply to volunteers. A volunteer is not an employee by definition and employment triggers OSHA authority. This is the same provision that keeps OSHA from inspecting your home and fining you if you don't follow OSHA procedures when working in your yard or on your house etc. Once an organization hires staff then OSHA regulations apply. However, whether OSHA regs apply or not is no reason not to operate in as safe a manner as possible. |
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| Author: | adammil1 [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
As for harnesses and fall protection on a locomotive, one of the more difficult issues one would face is that an OSHA lanyard is 6ft long. Most tie off points you would have to use on the average locomotive wouldn't do you much good. If you tie off below where you are working you may be falling 4feet to your tie off point and then another 6 feet of lanyard still hitting the ground. I've thought of in the past when say working on the steam dome on the engine I work on tieing off to the handrail, however even with this there would still be a heck of a fall as the hand rail would be 6ft below me and only 7-8ft from the ground. Also it is hard to think on the average cab where a good tie off point would even be. What I have seen in pictures done is to have a platform about 6.5' in the air running the length of the rail car so people can walk below and walk on top. Are there any restoration groups out there working in truly OSHA compliant steam locomotive restoration shops and what do you do about fall protection? Adam |
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| Author: | giterdun [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
This is tragic news, but it should not be construed to reflect badly upon the 2926 crew. It has been my pleasure to be on site several times, and I have been deeply impressed with the commitment to safety this group has displayed. All volunteers are required to take a safety class that is just as comprehensive as any I've taken on the railroads I've worked for. Refresher courses are required on a yearly basis. Harnesses are provided, and fall prevention is emphasized. Proper PPE is made available, and its use is mandatory. The last time I was on site, a volunteer noticed me near his work area, stopped what he was doing, and gave me ear plugs before he continued his task. That level of commitment doesn't just happen. It takes dedication and hard work over a long period of time. I cannot emphasize enough how much I respect the culture of safety and professionalism this group has developed. -Chris Zahrt |
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| Author: | Rob Gardner [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
Adam, If you check out the 2926's website, you'll see that they have a real focus on safety and everyone who is working on the boiler of that locomotive is tied off to a lifeline that is roughly at the top of the boiler. I agree with Chris Zahrt, this group is very proactive in making safety personal and a requirement of anyone and everyone who is at their facility. I hope and pray that there is no long term detriment from this incident or the one in Silverton but that everyone learns from it and these things are not repeated. All, Our company built a rail yard facility in 07 and 08 for a major US corporation who set a high level of expectation of all their contractors for their safety performance. It's called behavior-based safety training. In the end, when our work ended into the second year of construction activity, literally tens of thousands of man-hours had been worked incident free. I believe the record is still intact now that the site has gone into production mode. It's not management alone that is responsible for the safety and well-being of the people doing the actual work. It's management and the work crews themselves with the guidance of a safety professional or designated safety supervisor. You don't work alone. You don't let somebody perform a task they haven't been trained or qualified for. You don't start a task until everyone has been briefed on what is to be done, how it will be done, what each team member's responsiblities are in the process, everyone agrees that they understand these points and feel protected from whatever risks have been identified and how they have been mitigated. When each person takes ownership of their own safety and stops taking it for granted, you will create a safe work environment. These machines and structures we work on can be very unforgiving if we don't keep our head in the game at all times. I've heard too many gruesome accounts of injury and fatalites on rail construction sites. I don't want one on one of mine. When you get close to an incident like this, it will stick with you for a long time. Rob Gardner |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
Safety has to be a culture, nobody lets anybody do anything unsafe. Don't ignore anything that is not 100% right. Attitudes catch on, either good ones or bad ones. When you watch the news and see an oil refinery blew up, the root cause is often someone stopped caring 5 years ago. The safety culture gives way to one of complacence, little things happen and build up and then it's on CNN. I have been following the restoration of 2926 online via their website, facebook, and news and for the most part everything I have seen has been spot-on. There have been one or two small things I wont mention because I don't want to come off as critical of them in light of the recent tragic news. I work as a vocational teacher and my students do all types of industrial work including boiler repairs. I'm certified as an OSHA 10 & 30 hour instructor and I am very heavy on safety in my program. Something very useful is the OSHA website, there is a lot of great information there. One of the activities I do regularly with my students is review the "Fatal Facts" section and analyze fatal accidents for root cause and preventative measures. If you review just the headings you will see the majority of the accidents are falls, caught between, struck by, and electrocution. All of these are very real dangers in a railroad shop. http://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/toc_FatalFacts.html |
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| Author: | Bobk [ Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
In addition to what Chris Z had to say. I have been on site at 2926 many times. The commitment to safety from this group in our industry is beyond compare . I am not slamming anyone else just setting a standard that we all should emulate. Sadly all it takes is a second, a mis- step, a bad reach or taking your eye off of the target. This second can never be taken back. |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tragic News - ATSF 2926 |
This will definitely be brought up as an issue for our volunteers. Much of our work requires roof access and the design of our facility would easily allow for a safety tie off rail for PPG. Safety culture is something that must be developed and continually fostered. Do not be afraid to learn from other people's mistakes. I subscribe to the NTSB Safety e-mail list. Anytime a Go Team launches, I get an e-mail and updates. We've added extra rules as a result of the two Green Line wrecks in Boston. As a legalist, it is my firm opinion that every rail restoration outfit that has the resources should attempt to follow the OSHA or applicable state workplace safety regs, whether or not they are excluded due to using volunteer labor. What resources you put into it will be well spent if someday, someone decided to file suit against your organization for negligent injury or worse. As volunteer organizations with limited resources, we have to be more professional than the professionals. Otherwise, we risk inviting additional regulation and hardships. |
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