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What is the story on these wooden coaches?
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Author:  I5Hudson [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  What is the story on these wooden coaches?
Anyone know the story on these wooden coaches?


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 98&nseq=12
Author:  dinwitty [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
looks like out west, a station in the background. Standard or narrow gauge?
where did you dig this photo out?


-edit-

there is a copyright name on the image I found the photographer's website, probably Durango and Silverton cars, looks like cars in need of repair. I emailed the photographer to find out.

http://www.baggiepix.co.uk/
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
The photo caption says Nevada City, Montana and standard gauge, ex-Soo Line..........
Author:  dinwitty [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
These coaches bear the name Minneapolis, St Paul and Sault Ste Marie and are to be found at the railroad depot at Nevada City Montana. No idea what they are doing there apart from deteriorating as they are standard gauge and the running track gauge is 3 foot.


-digging more-
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
This page:

http://www.gngoat.org/passenger.htm

seemingly IDs the car on the far right of the photo as ex-GN:
"O3336 was originally built in March 1898 as the official car A-4 (1st). It was one of the few GN official cars that was never renumbered in official service. It was sent to maintenance service in 1936 as O3336, an outfit car for the Stores Department."

Supposedly another GN office car is in the same line-up, probably out of sight to the right, GN steel car A-3:
Image

Further, this site:
http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/inde ... siness.htm
seems to claim that the two cars in question were "Donated to the Historic Landmark Society of Montana" in 1965 and 1968. Now, if someone can hunt down that "Alder Gulch Railroad".......
Author:  dinwitty [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
Image

looks like a reverse view at the station, line is a 30 inch gauge 1.5 mile line.

http://aldergulch.com/

cars are standard gauge.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
Jackpot:

http://www.virginiacitymt.com/AlderGulch.asp

And even John Larkin of the Escanaba & Lake Superior got involved. Well, that explains where he found the stuff he has stashed away, including the unbelievable chapel car, and where his little Mexicano steamer went............
Author:  WesternStar [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
What is the name of the chapel car and is it still around?

--Richard
Author:  Ted Miles [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
Richard,

There was an auction of the standard gauge cars about 10 years or more ago. I dont't know where the cars went.

If my feeble brain is working this morning I think the chapel car was St Paul and it was in good shape back then.

further there was an article in Railway & Locomotive preservation. I can't remember if it was in the Preservation News section or a free standing item.

Ted Miles
Author:  dinwitty [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
Quote:
All I can really tell you is what I have already listed underneath the picture. As a tourist from England I was heading for West Yellowstone and was driving through Montana when I took a diversion and headed for Virginia City as it was a ghost town. Two miles further along the road was Nevada City which was even more of a ghost town. A railway line connected the two and this picture was taken at the Nevada City depot. It was Sunday 20th September this year. The cars were all in roughly the same condition, had interiors but were sagging on their bogies. The picture does not include them all, probably two more on the right of the shot. Hope this helps you. Best wishes
Dave Hewitt


email back verifies location
Author:  Jim Lundquist [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
I remember my kids and I riding on top of the tender of that steam locomotive about five years ago. Fun times. The old wooden caoches were there on a siding - looking really tired then.

Jim
Author:  Kevin Gillespie [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
The chapel car is definitely the St. Paul. It is uniquely historic, as it is the only Catholic Chapel car still in existance. The Society for the Propagation of the Faith ran a number of them throughout the west in the late 19th/early 20th century. I remember that John Larkin bought the entire fleet, and at last report the car is is locked up in Escanaba.

As a devout Roman Catholic and railfan, it is my prayer that it will ultimately find its way to the B&O Museum. There it can rest just over a mile away from the Basilica of Assumption, the mother see of the American church, where the early bishops set the plans for the westward expansion of the church during 7 provincial and 3 plenary councils held there between 1829 and 1884.
Author:  o anderson [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
It would be nice to see these cars go somewhere and be restored for operation. Probably it would have to be on the order of a Strasburg Railroad operation. Are there any such places?

To my mind, several historic operations exist which could consider it: Sierra Railroad (e.g. CSRM's stepchild, not the diner train), Virginia and Truckee (either the Gray's operation or the agency), and Nevada Northern. Maybe some of the guys building new 19th Century locomotives will want one or two. Funding for moves and rebuilds being the major dilemma for any of the groups. The cars are lucky to have survived so long... the dry climate must help. Time is running out for all the wood passenger cars not sitting in a barn or museum building.
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
Here's a little more background on the Soo Line cars.

In 1964 Charlie Bovey purchased a bunch of retired equipment from the Soo Line, apparently to equip the Alder Gulch Railroad he was building as a tourist attraction in Nevada City, MT. Here is a list of cars I know went there:

309 Wood baggage smoker combine, Barney & Smith 1907, converted to Cook-Dining X-1431 2/43.

311 Wood baggage smoker combine, Barney & Smith 1908, converted to Shower-Power X-1432, 5/45.

402 Steel coach, originally parlor of the same number, B&S 1911.

758 Steel coach observation, originally café-parlor obs. B&S 1914.

1237 Steel 12-1 sleeper, BEMIDJI, B&S 1913.

1602 Wood baggage, originally Wisconsin Central 14, B&S 1882, converted to B&B Bunk W-329, 4/39.

1902 Wood coach, originally Wisconsin Central 19, Watson 1880, converted to Teleg. Dept. Bunk W-327, 1/36.

It is my understanding that the three steel cars were traded to Mr. Larkin of the E&LS for the 30" gauge steam loco and other help setting up the steam operation, and those cars have been moved to storage at Wells,MI. I have no knowledge of the present ownership of the remaining wood cars.
Author:  mikefrommontana [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is the story on these wooden coaches?
The cars are currently in the custody of the Montana Heritage Commission [/url]http://montanaheritagecommission.com/. The commission was set up to manage and operate assets in Virginia City and Nevada City Montana that the Bovey family sold to the State of Montana in 1998. The equipment trade (including the 3 steel Soo cars, the chapel car, and a 2 truck shay (J. Neils Lumber)) was with the Bovey's (Bovey Restorations) to rebuild their railroad operation following a disastrous fire that destroyed their engine house in 1991.

The State of Montana inherited the agreement and completed it, receiving Baldwin Engine 12, reconstruction of the original rolling stock (built on dump car frames for the original line construction in the 1960's), reconstruction of the track (pretty much all new ties and ballast) and a Plymouth switcher that came from a smelter in Canada.

In all this, the standard gauge cars, which were owned by the Landmark society, have been transferred to the MHC. Addtional standard gauge equipment includes a Great Northern yard caboose, two Milwaukee Road outfit cars, Milwaukee Road business car 999, a 25 ton steam crane, a combine from the Montana Western, and the last passenger coach from the Butte Anaconda and Pacifc. The entirety of the collection is in fair to poor condition.

I have been involved in trying to stave off the weather (roofing) but it is a daunting task. There is word that a friends group is in the offing, but that is still developing. We have also received aid (in exchange for former D&RGW narrow gauge trucks) from the Friends of the C&TS, who held one of the their work sessions in Nevada City in August and will do so again in 2010.

Housing has been a critical problem in getting volunteer involvement (the site is two hours from Bozeman and Butte). The development of a Friends group is eagerly looked forward to in getting more work done there.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
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