Railway Preservation News :: View topic - The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?

There is nothing special here. The coach ended up on the C&EI through the used equipment market. This happened much more than you think. Santa Fe cabooses ended up on the Clinchfield, B&M steam locomotives ended up on the Santa Fe, and PRR P-54 coaches ended up on several other railroads.

One of these LV coaches ended up on the Clinchfield ex ursion train. It ended up at the Kentucky Railway Museum. It was later sold to a private party, so these cars got around.

By the way the museum has been known as the Museum of Transportation for some time now.

Can you give us more details on the manufacturer, date of manufacture, etc. of this car? We may be able to give more details.

Keep in mind that LV was one of the first RRs to completely discontinue passenger service (1959 or 1960 or thereabouts) so their equipment entered the used market before the big train discontinuations of the late 1960s. Also, I think C&EI purchased used equipment more than once, including some Milwaukee Road coaches in the 1960s as well.

Chris.

Hi,

So, going back to a Flags Diamonds and Statues issue from 1996 or so (the excellent magazine by the Anthracitee Railroads Historical Society) there were a number of LV steel coaches sold directly to the C&EI. The issue, which I don't seem to have, is still on the racks at The Model Railroad Shop in Pisctaway, NJ. It lists disposal info for all the Valley's steel coaches.

So, there was a direct sale.

Rob

robertjohndavis wrote:

Thanks, Robert, I read your message last night. This afternoon when I spoke with Fred at the shop. He said "Call back at 5pm and speak with Jack. If magazines don't sell they return them" He didn't think they still had that issue. So let's see what happens at 5pm. I'd settle for a copy of the info.

Author:	Higherspeedrailnow [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:12 am ]
Post subject:	The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
The National Museum of Transport in Saint Louis has a C&EI #405 which they state is a former Lehigh Valley coach. Yes, it does indeed look like this. However it does have C&EI marked trucks. Which of course could have been changed out. But perhaps someone could give me the details how a LV passenger car ended up on the CE&I? I have not been able to find the connection in print of the details of this exchange or sale between these railroads. Thanks.

Author:	wilkinsd [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
There is nothing special here. The coach ended up on the C&EI through the used equipment market. This happened much more than you think. Santa Fe cabooses ended up on the Clinchfield, B&M steam locomotives ended up on the Santa Fe, and PRR P-54 coaches ended up on several other railroads. One of these LV coaches ended up on the Clinchfield ex ursion train. It ended up at the Kentucky Railway Museum. It was later sold to a private party, so these cars got around. By the way the museum has been known as the Museum of Transportation for some time now.

Author:	ctjacks [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
Can you give us more details on the manufacturer, date of manufacture, etc. of this car? We may be able to give more details. Keep in mind that LV was one of the first RRs to completely discontinue passenger service (1959 or 1960 or thereabouts) so their equipment entered the used market before the big train discontinuations of the late 1960s. Also, I think C&EI purchased used equipment more than once, including some Milwaukee Road coaches in the 1960s as well. Chris.

Author:	Ron Goldfeder [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
When I worked at MOT I tried to find out more about this car, such as its number on the LV, date of construction, etc. I was not able to find anything as there just wasn't anything about such things in the file for the car. If the C&EI had kept such details they didn't get to the museum. As it was a used car I can understand that. Llooking around the car wasn't any help as there were no markings found there either. I suspect you would have to sand down in the paint looking for old markings, if they still exist. Frustrating.

Author:	Higherspeedrailnow [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
wilkinsd wrote: There is nothing special here. The coach ended up on the C&EI through the used equipment market. This happened much more than you think. Santa Fe cabooses ended up on the Clinchfield, B&M steam locomotives ended up on the Santa Fe, and PRR P-54 coaches ended up on several other railroads. One of these LV coaches ended up on the Clinchfield ex ursion train. It ended up at the Kentucky Railway Museum. It was later sold to a private party, so these cars got around. By the way the museum has been known as the Museum of Transportation for some time now. Yes, I remember this car from the Clinchfield I rode it on the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad . But the car had lounge-restrooms and reclining seats?? I didn't think any of the LV day coaches had these or reclining seats? Where is the car today?

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Author:	wilkinsd [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
[quote="Higherspeedrailnow\=] Yes, I remember this car from the Clinchfield I rode it on the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad . But the car had lounge-restrooms and reclining seats?? I didn't think any of the LV day coaches had these or reclining seats? Where is the car today?[/quote] No, that's not the car I am speaking of. The car you are speaking of is probably a former L&N car. The car that KRM had looked a lot like the car at MOT. The Clinchfield excursion train was a dog's breakfast of equipment (mostly heavyweight) from the various members of The Family Lines. The car you saw at GSMR probably is/was a former L&N heavyweight that the L&N rebuilt in the 1940s with sealed windows, lounge restrooms, and reclining seats. The Clinchfiled had several of these former L&N cars, including one of NC&StL herigate from the City of Memphis. The CRR installed "bus windows" in place of the sealed windows. KRM recieved several of these coaches from CRR as "Payment" for the failed attempt to least C&O 2716, which fell apart following the legal troubles of Tom Moore, CRR's general manager. KRM recieved former SAL 821, L&N 2554, 2572 and 2587, and the LV car. The LV car left KRM in the 1980s, 821 was recently traded to another museum, I believe, and 2587, the former City of Memphis Car was sold to a museum in Tennessee. These former CRR/L&N cars really got around, GSMR has/had a few, and even Heber Valley had one.

Author:	scottychaos [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
hmm..interesting! this car is not known as a LV survivor in LV railfan circles: http://www.frontiernet.net/~scottychaos ... other.html Im very active on all the LV forums..this car hasnt come up! I will spread the word in LV-land..see if anyone knows anything about this car! Scot

Author:	robertjohndavis [ Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
Hi, So, going back to a Flags Diamonds and Statues issue from 1996 or so (the excellent magazine by the Anthracitee Railroads Historical Society) there were a number of LV steel coaches sold directly to the C&EI. The issue, which I don't seem to have, is still on the racks at The Model Railroad Shop in Pisctaway, NJ. It lists disposal info for all the Valley's steel coaches. So, there was a direct sale. Rob

Author:	Higherspeedrailnow [ Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
robertjohndavis wrote: Hi, So, going back to a Flags Diamonds and Statues issue from 1996 or so (the excellent magazine by the Anthracitee Railroads Historical Society) there were a number of LV steel coaches sold directly to the C&EI. The issue, which I don't seem to have, is still on the racks at The Model Railroad Shop in Pisctaway, NJ. It lists disposal info for all the Valley's steel coaches. So, there was a direct sale. Rob Thanks, Robert, I read your message last night. This afternoon when I spoke with Fred at the shop. He said "Call back at 5pm and speak with Jack. If magazines don't sell they return them" He didn't think they still had that issue. So let's see what happens at 5pm. I'd settle for a copy of the info.

Author:	robertjohndavis [ Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The connection please between the C&EI and the LV?
Higherspeedrailnow wrote: robertjohndavis wrote: Hi, So, going back to a Flags Diamonds and Statues issue from 1996 or so (the excellent magazine by the Anthracitee Railroads Historical Society) there were a number of LV steel coaches sold directly to the C&EI. The issue, which I don't seem to have, is still on the racks at The Model Railroad Shop in Pisctaway, NJ. It lists disposal info for all the Valley's steel coaches. So, there was a direct sale. Rob Thanks, Robert, I read your message last night. This afternoon when I spoke with Fred at the shop. He said "Call back at 5pm and speak with Jack. If magazines don't sell they return them" He didn't think they still had that issue. So let's see what happens at 5pm. I'd settle for a copy of the info. Hi, I was there Tuesday and it was on the little spinning rack to the right of all the magazines. Yellow cover with a switcher and a coach on the front. Great guys at that shop! Rob

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