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| Steam hauls commuters home in snow https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28660 |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8428097.stm?lsf |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Marvelous! |
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| Author: | Mgoldman [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
So... an American asks, how did the group that runs the steam engine afford the opportunity? It's implied they found out about the stranded train, canceled a preplanned REVENUE trip and rescued the electric out of the goodness of their heart, or perhaps pride in having a new steam engine come to the rescue of a modern electric. I can't quite picture SP #4449 come rescue Amtrak without someone working out a way of repayment for services rendered and likely (and specifically) unaffordable to a non-profit group. A unique scenario would be UP #844 assisting a UP train but I thought the group running the Tornado was closer to a group like "the Friends". Insurance? Fuel and logistic support - how was this feasible? /Mitch |
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| Author: | Jdelhaye [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Mgoldman wrote: So... an American asks, how did the group that runs the steam engine afford the opportunity? It's implied they found out about the stranded train, canceled a preplanned REVENUE trip and rescued the electric out of the goodness of their heart, or perhaps pride in having a new steam engine come to the rescue of a modern electric. /Mitch After reading the article, it would appear that, noticing approximately 100 empty seats on their excursion train, the group offered the seats to the stranded passengers, with little or no interuption to their revenue trip..... a simple act of goodwill. Jeff |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
At the close of steam, in 1955, my father requested the LIRR hang onto at least one steam locomotive to thaw switches, out on the eastern end of Long Island. President Goodfellow canned that idea in the rush to completely Dieselize and get rid of all steam servicing. Question: Will a steam locomotive get through snow when a Diesel will not? It would be wild to see steam locos pulled out of their sheds and fired for just such a situation, yet the logistics of fueling and watering would be a nightmare. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Floods, too.......diesels choke on 3" of water above railhead, steam can run through water up to the level of the grate. dave |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
This raises a question I've wondered about in the past (at the risk of getting really OT). If a hot steam locomotive ends up getting into flood waters up to the firebox, will the cold flood waters cause the hot metal to lose it's integrity and fail in an "explosion"? Also, as to diesels getting caught in high water, the CSX operating manual calls for placing the controls in dynamic and forcing the traction motor fans to run to try and keep the water from ruining them, hoping to be able to coast past the high water I guess. On a somewhat related note, I was watching the coverage of the East Coast blizzard last week and wondering if any railroad, up to and including Amtrak, ever put together a special train(s) to take stranded passengers from a snowed-in airport to another region where it wasn't as bad? Personally, I think Amtrak needs a lot more equipment to be able to do things like that. There are a number of places (BWI, Newark, Cleveland) where Amtrak routes come close to major airports, and they could rescue stranded travelers - if they can keep their own tracks open. I don't know what happened over the last 50 years, I remember hearing when I was a kid that passenger trains were an "all weather" form of transportation. Probably lost that capability when they cut way back on MofW crews, and started contracting major parts of it out. |
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| Author: | John Bohon [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
The late Ted Burdette was a fireman and engineer on the Elk River Coal and Lumber Co out of Swandale, WV. The logging line forded Lilly Fork Creek 42 times in 16 miles to get to the timber. The only bridge was at Avaco where the line came off the tail track of the BC&G wye. There were times when thunderstorms would come up causing flash floods on Lilly. With the loaded log train comming down grade out of the woods in the dark Ted said you would approach one of the fords and see the high water rolling in the creek complete with debris like logs. There were not enough brakes available to stop the train so into the water the shay would go. At times the water was deep enough to be above the fire in the firebox. Because it was upgrade out of the creek the engineer had to open up on the shay while still in the creek to pull the short grade out of the creek. When the water went over the fire the fire would go out. When the shay came out of the water the fire would woof back to life. This would go on until the train got out of the woods and back to high ground. The water getting in the fire did not seem to cause much damage to the firebox though it is difficult to see how it could not. Regardless, those old boys running on logging railroads had guts. As for what has happened to railroading in bad weather over the last fifty years I would have to say that the lawyers and courts have won the battle of the blizzard over the last 50 years. I think the equipment would do just fine. I take my hat off to the tourist roads that kept running in this storm. That is how you serve your customer and the way things should be. John Bohon |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Great story John! Thanks for sharing. |
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| Author: | Jim Baker [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
It wasn't because of snow, but, if I recall correctly, one of UP's steamers helped a UP freight over a hill a few years ago because one of the freight's diesel units died. The 844 or 3985 was headed back to Cheyenne from Denver with its passenger consist, when they got a red signal. They were told by the dispatcher that the freight ahead of them had stalled on the grade, and they would have to wait until the freight either doubled the hill or until some more power arrived. The steam crew suggested that they come up behind, and become a helper. The apparently young and somewhat dismayed dispatcher agreed, and, of course, they got the freight over the hill with no problem. Of course, this was a case where all equipment and people involved were UP. Not quite the same if 4449 was to assist an AMTRAK train. |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Jim Baker wrote: It wasn't because of snow, but, if I recall correctly, one of UP's steamers helped a UP freight over a hill a few years ago because one of the freight's diesel units died. The 844 or 3985 was headed back to Cheyenne from Denver with its passenger consist, when they got a red signal. They were told by the dispatcher that the freight ahead of them had stalled on the grade, and they would have to wait until the freight either doubled the hill or until some more power arrived. The steam crew suggested that they come up behind, and become a helper. The apparently young and somewhat dismayed dispatcher agreed, and, of course, they got the freight over the hill with no problem. If I recall the story correctly, it was the 3985, and the crew of the stalled freight train saw the smoke rising from the rear, but couldn't see the engine due to distance. They called the helper and asked (I guess) Steve Lee "what's the number of your lead unit again?", then, "what type of unit is that?" As an old Lima Locomotive Works ad from the late '40's said, "a unit of power is a unit of power", or something like that. I'm guessing that the steam crew had a good laugh about it. |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
The boiler always has water in it and the heat/cold effect is always on it, water goes down the sides of the firebox and rearside. The heat of the fire can be hot enough to melt metal but the water prevents that. The Jack Shaft electrics had its motor higher than the drive wheels, so it could waddle thru some high water. Its not really so safe to run thru high water as the possibility of a washout is at stake. Nice gesture there.. |
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| Author: | superheater [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Floods, too.......diesels choke on 3" of water above railhead, steam can run through water up to the level of the grate. That would seem incredibly risky. Who knows what the condition of the track is in those conditions. |
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| Author: | Steve B [ Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
I remember reading a early 1960's Trains and while I no longer have the magazine to make certain, but there was an article about the FW&D getting a steamer from CB&Q to deal with spring floods and it talked about how it could make it through when the diesel would short out. They didn’t seem too concerned about the condition of the track and went slow. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam hauls commuters home in snow |
Steve B wrote: I remember reading a early 1960's Trains and while I no longer have the magazine to make certain, but there was an article about the FW&D getting a steamer from CB&Q to deal with spring floods and it talked about how it could make it through when the diesel would short out. They didn’t seem too concerned about the condition of the track and went slow. Steve - Your memory is good, but the facts are just a bit off. The railroad that purchased the steamer was the Texas & Pacific which needed it to get through some floods that happened on one of their lines on a fairly regular basis and they no longer had a steam engine on their roster. The locomotive that they purchased was Ft. Worth & Denver 2-8-2 #410, which they renumbered as T&P 400. The FW&D was a CB&Q subsidiary. Fortunately, after the 2-8-2 was no longer needed for flood duty, the T&P placed the Mike in a city park in Marshall, Texas. So its short career as an emergency flood service engine probably prevented it from being scrapped. A nice story for this Christmas season. Les |
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