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The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
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Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
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Author:  Dave [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
More quality work, thanks for the motivation.

I've been pondering the application of silicon bronze or aluminum bronze wire welding for cast iron repairs in things like saddles or steam chests. I've had pretty good success using it on smaller cast parts, and to build up bearing surfaces on iron castings. Was this considered and discarded in favor of the traditional torch brazing for any specific reason?

Damn fine work to be proud of.

dave
Author:  Ted Miles [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Guys,

I have a question about the instellation of the end beam on the #31.

Are those stainless steel bolts I am seeing?

They do last a long time.

Also, i have never heard of the wood you are using. Is another name for it opoke?
I take it it is a hard wood like oak or teak.

Thanks for the great pictures. Maybe you can do a series on the RGS #20 soon.

Ted Miles
Author:  gbrewer [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Kelly,

Very impressive work. The photography is good too. Please post more.

Any progress on RGS 20?

Glen
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Ted Miles wrote:
Guys,

Also, i have never heard of the wood you are using. Is another name for it opoke?
I take it it is a hard wood like oak or teak.


Ted Miles



Google is your friend:

http://www.matbase.com/material/wood/class2-15-25-years/azobe/properties
http://www.railquip.com/Pages/azobe.htm

Now that we can no longer use any decent chemical preservatives, it pays to use naturally rot and insect resistent wood.

Really nice work, Kelly.
Author:  car57 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
What on earth are you ripping the sides out of the passenger car for ? All the structural members are removed and how do you intend to get the strength back? Ive never seen anyone rip out the sills before ?
Is it really that bad.
Mike
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Mike,

I don't think you realize just how lucky you are living where the rain never falls… or at least working on old wooden equipment that has been stored in such an environment for decades.

The typical problem with wood railroad equipment is pockets of rot in the frame. Take, for example, the wood car in New England that was recently discussed. Judging from the appearance of the outside sheathing, I can all but guarantee that there are pockets of rot both where the posts penetrate the window sills, and again where the posts fit in mortises in the side sills, because the water has run between the window sills and jambs, and continued down to pool on top of the sills. That's just one of many reasons why it is so important to get preserved cars under cover, so they don't start to dissolve again the moment the restoration is completed.
Author:  car57 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Yes i agree Dennis, just never seen anyone chop all that out before, the before picture doesnt look any different from ours though, in fact less rotten. Wouldnt it be great to have covered museums for Passenger cars, up here in Cheyenne Horse drawn carriages are revered and cosseted but passengers cars, the next stage if you parden the pun, no one really cares, that is until you show them the history and the archeology, even then there is so much indifference.


Mike Pannell (getting off his soapbox)
Car 57 project
Cheyenne
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
car57 wrote:
Yes i agree Dennis, just never seen anyone chop all that out before, the before picture doesnt look any different from ours though, in fact less rotten...


That's because the before photo doesn't show us the framing, just the sub siding. The weak points of these cars is always the mortise and tendon joinery in the frame; either because of rot, or simple mechanical wear, and one aggravates the other.

Unlike the car you are working on, which sat immobilized for decades, is now sitting on a mobile home frame, and is envisioned to be displayed immobile, Strasburg runs their cars, daily. If the joinery loosens up, the car will continually "work", becoming progressively looser with time. Luckily, Strasburg is committed to spending the money to do repairs in kind, rather than substituting a steel frame or other fakery, and in doing so is keeping the car builder's art alive. I do note that Strasburg tends to substitute better, and more expensive materials than were originally used, but that's just a function of the relative cost of material vs. labor between now and a hundred years ago.

I've been meaning to ask, when you patched the opening is the side of car 57, did you do a structural splice in the truss plank, or just fill the opening with plywood? Likewise, does the 57 have an iron or steel over truss to keep the ends from sagging? The over truss is quite visible in the photo of the car in the Strasburg shop.
Author:  sbhunterca [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Quote:
What on earth are you ripping the sides out of the passenger car for ? All the structural members are removed and how do you intend to get the strength back? Ive never seen anyone rip out the sills before ?
Is it really that bad.
Mike


Hi, Mike:

Wooden cars really take a beating from the rain and snow in the east. What you're seeing is a car being fully rebuilt by a shop which is second to none... but yes, it's definitely a shock seeing a car stripped to its bare bones!

The Strasburg car will be ready for another lifetime of use when it's done- it sure does the heart good to see long trains of well maintained wooden cars still hauling passengers behind steam.

For another example, which was truly derelict when we started, witness the former 1886 Canadian Pacific business car at RMEO in Smiths Falls, Ontario. The sills and other framing were so weak we had serious concerns when it was first lifted in Toronto for its trip to Smiths Falls:

http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/sfrmeo6/

In the early photos you will see the roof supported by the shop framing, with most of the walls and floor structure stripped due to seriously rotted wood!

This is a multi- year job by a small crew and which often takes a back seat to other higher priority jobs, but it's indoors, protected from the elements, and the museum is committed to doing it right. 23 is starting to look like a railway car again.

By the way, Mike, I've been following with interest the progress on your car. It's looking great!

Steve Hunter

http://www.sfrmeo.ca/
http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/
Author:  car57 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Hi Dennis/Steve

Thanks for the replies, shock was a good word to use but i realize that ours is doing nothing compared to yours!
We dont have any steel frames anywhere just the rods vertically and horizontally and the steel bar through the belt rail tied in at the ends. The doorway was blocked in really well not just plywood sheets and fortunately they hadnt cut through the bottom frame or the cantrail. The car was jacked up either end to move it and nothing moved whatsoever. If and its a big IF the car gets her spot in a building on display with trucks etc and bolsters then we will add support in the middle anyway to prevent sagging, any tanks and under gear will be fibreglass dummies to help with weight etc.
On another issue do you know of anyone who reproduces light fittings of the period or bathroom fittings/window lifts etc ?


Cheers to all and keep up the excellent work

Mike Pannell
Cheyenne
Author:  John Risley [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
I too would like to hear more on the decision to repair with more traditional brazing methods versus aluminum/bronze or silicone/bronze wire. Don't mean this as accusation, but as "why the choice was made" ? Had a bad experience with the wire, but I went into it cold {no experience}, with the wrong equipment and not enough heat. Thought if it were done properly it might be an answer for a lot of cast repairs and bearing surface build up.Hopefully either here or on another thread we could generate some discussion on the wire welding Dave mentioned

As always I am in awe of the work done at the Strasburg Shops.

Thanks, John.
Author:  superheater [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops C-936 Bronze?
What is C-936 Bronze, who issues the standard? ASME?
Author:  whodom [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Kelly- thanks for the additional photos and explanation on the wheel lathe. I take it the older "form" tool to which you referred was a single tool with the entire wheel tread/flange profile? I can definitely see where the tracer tool would be an improvement.

The two wheel lathes I'd been around previously were an old in-floor machine at the N&W's locomotive shop in Bellevue, OH (which likely was moved from the old NKP roundhouse in Bellevue) which could turn diesel wheels while they were still installed on the locomotive. We successfully used it to turn the pony wheels on NKP 765 in ~1982. The other machine was a modern (in ~1983) CNC machine in the N&W wheel shop in Portsmouth, OH. IIRC it used two tools for each wheel, one for the flange and one for the tread. It was pretty impressive to watch and hear; if a wheel had sharp flanges it could take VERY heavy cuts in a single pass. I'm sure it would not have accommodated a steam locomotive wheel though.
Author:  Linn W. Moedinger [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From The Strasburg Rail Road Shops
We have had success with electric welding cast iron and steel using bronze wire in some cases. Usually the most success comes with newer iron as opposed to old oil soaked castings.

Traditional torch brazing works on just about any iron and the older and more complicated the casting the more likely it is to out perform arc brazing. First of all, you can see whether you are getting a good knit to the base metal by how the metal wets and flows. That is the point where you usually have difficulties with the arc process. Additionally, the preheat of such a large portion of the casting to 600F and the slow cooling tend to minimize localized stresses, giving the repair a better chance to hold.

As to technique, it isn't too complicated. It is just a matter of controlling the heat of the torch and trying to maintain the braze metal at a plastic (rather than liquid) state for the overhead and vertical work. We use two people for the job so one can melt rod stubs together and pass them to the person brazing. Typically the person brazing hands over the torch when their face shield melts and collapses far enough to touch their nose.
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