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ohio Jinx?
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Author:  Ted Miles [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  ohio Jinx?
folks,

As we all know the Shore Line historical Society went out of business last fall.

And the Ohio Railroad Museum hasn't been doing so well lately.

now I see in railway museum quarterly that the Steam railroad Museum at Minerva, Ohio has closed and sold off their collection.

Doesn't anybody in Ohio like trains?

there sure were a lot of them in the "good old days" with the new York Central, Pennsylvania Railroad and so on.

Your thoughts?

Ted Miles
Author:  KevinO [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
It could be simple economics. Ohio is smack in the middle of the rust belt. The problem could be lack of available volunteers and local money to keep these places going. When you are worried about keeping your family afloat you are less likely to spend your weekend "playing trains" or giving organizations like that money.

Kevin O
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
Might it not be balanced by the fact that the largest new historic rail project in the US (world?) is in eastern Ohio?
Author:  Bobharbison [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
KevinO wrote:
It could be simple economics. Ohio is smack in the middle of the rust belt. The problem could be lack of available volunteers and local money to keep these places going. When you are worried about keeping your family afloat you are less likely to spend your weekend "playing trains" or giving organizations like that money.

Kevin O


What he said... The operations that were marginal before, in terms of patronage, funding and volunteers simply can't weather the storm when tough times hit. I think we've all been places where you're one of 10 people riding in an old coach behind an Alco or SW something or other, and you're wondering "How do they survive?" Well, when times get tough, they don't...
Author:  jhilborn [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
There are a number of successful tourist railroads that seem to be doing quite well given the current economic problems. One of them, the Byesville Scenic Railway, is actively working to reconstruct track to extend their operations. I wouldn't say there's an Ohio jinx. Rather, I'd say that volunteers and financial support are being directed to properly run organizations. Those organizations that have failed or are faltering suffer from lack of volunteers due to poor leadership, internal fighting, lack of fund raising, or poor business models, with each interrelated.
Author:  SR6900 [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
Also Cuyahoga Valley is very successful.
Author:  Stationary Steam [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
Don't forget the Hocking Valley Scenic Railroad and the Conneaut Railroad Museum seems to hang on and never change.
Author:  Rob Gardner [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
Ohio has a tremendous history in regards to the US rail preservation movement. The Hocking Valley Scenic Rwy is still going strong and is quite possibly one of the oldest continually active tourist RR in the midwest. 4070, the ex-GTW 2-8-2 Mikado, operated for years out of Cleveland, Ohio, on the Cuyahoga Valley Line, dating back to the late 1960's. (One of the highpoints for me personally this winter was to finally get to meet Doug Fink, the man who was the original driving force behind the maintenance and operation of 4070 for so many years.) Today's CVSR is the outgrowth of the original CVL and is thriving in the midst of our down economy. I would also point out the steady development and growth of the Northern Ohio Railway Museum in Seville, OH, within a couple miles of I-71 and Rt.76. They are a driving force in the field of interurban preservation and were instrumental of helping preserve the Gerald E. Brookings collection in Cleveland. I would also agree with John regarding the Byesville Scenic RR. They are an ambitious group working hard to reopen mile after mile of their line in scenic SE Ohio. They have a very nice ride in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains and will get better each year.

While places like ORM seem to be struggling to gain traction (no pun intended), there continues to be great potential throughout the state. Of course, Jerry Jacobsen's facility under construction in Sugar Creek is stellar, to say the least, there are a lot of good things happening. I know I haven't touched on all of them, but try and spread the word and if you're in Ohio this next summer, try to pay one or two of these operations a visit and support their cause.


Rob Gardner
Author:  Steven M Harvey [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
I would agree with Rob that Ohio has some good tourist railroads running. When you look around most of them do one thing that a lot of people forget to do in today's market. They set aside a advertising budget and hire a advertising consultant to direct there dollars to the right target audience which in return generates the riders and dollars to keep them going.

Most of the CVSR and Hocking take those dollars and advertise to the General Public which come and rides the trains. The Hocking Hills in a 2008 study done by the State of Ohio rank the Hocking Hills as #5 place most visited in Ohio. Its one of those hidden secrets that most people don't know about and this puts the Hocking Valley Scenic right in the middle of it.

CVSR has the National Park for it draw plus it uses many other types of trains that are more toward the Non-Joe railfan to increase the ridership. So to say Ohio has a Jinx might be just like any business you have your ones that fail and others that succeed.

So the question that comes to mind besides this down turn what keeps you from taking the annual ride on your tourist line or visiting one these roads in Ohio? Most tickets are 15.00 for adults and 7.00 to 10.00 for Kids. I think this is very fare since most of us spend 8.00 to 15.00 at a sit down eatery for one person plus the gas to get there.

In the end it comes down to the priority of the individual. Do I get my fix at Applebee's or do I go and ride the train today. Something to think about.


Best Regards,

Steven Harvey
Author:  ebtrr [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
Ted Miles wrote:
folks,

As we all know the Shore Line historical Society went out of business last fall.

And the Ohio Railroad Museum hasn't been doing so well lately.

now I see in railway museum quarterly that the Steam railroad Museum at Minerva, Ohio has closed and sold off their collection.

Doesn't anybody in Ohio like trains?

Yes, that's why I drive to Pennsylvania to volunteer ;^)

I know here in Columbus the rank-and-file citizens don't give a crap about preservation. It's all about the "new" and down with the old. Cincinnati and Cleveland have saved their terminals, not so with Columbus. When I get depressed about a restoration project I'm working on at the EBT I stop at the ORM and then I feel a lot better.

Outside Columbus things in Ohio really aren't so bad. The Hocking Valley Scenic and Cuyahoga Valley Scenic are solid and successful operations. We have several other tourist railroads. Visit this site for a list of rail-tourism sites in Ohio:

http://www.ohiorailtourism.org/railroads.htm

Plus the Age of Steam Roundhouse going up. Not sure why they and the Conneaut Railroad Museum are not on the list.
Author:  PaulWWoodring [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
I want to echo the comments about the CVSR being a really going concern. Last weekend, the day after a significant snow, a friend and I decided to take advantage of a special they had for local food banks. A can of food and $5 for a round-trip in either direction between Independence and Akron, so we went to Peninsula, in the middle of the Park, for lunch. Train was slammed. We got on in Akron, and they announced they had sold out 12 cars - 11 coaches and a food car - (mostly ex-MARC heritage coaches), 660 passengers, each trip for both trips on Saturday. I don't know how Sunday went, but the weather was a little better, so
ridership was probably comparable. I've got to believe that even at five bucks, using mostly volunteers, they at least broke even on operating costs, plus probably generated 2 - 3,000 cans of food for area food banks. Truly a win-win with the community.

The only downside was it being so crowded, it was far from a laid back ride, and we had to walk through several cars each way to find seats together, and get up and start walking well in advance of the Peninsula stop to get to the nearest open trap. I will say the crew had their act together in handling the crowds. They found seats for everyone.
Author:  Emmo213 [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
ebtrr wrote:
http://www.ohiorailtourism.org/railroads.htm

Plus the Age of Steam Roundhouse going up. Not sure why they and the Conneaut Railroad Museum are not on the list.


There are others that aren't on that list too, such as the Lorain & West Virginia.

With Age of Steam, I'm not sure it should be on there until we know if it'll be open to the public. I think the last thing I read said it wasn't for sure going to be open to the public.
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
What I don't see in Ohio (or Michigan or Indiana) is any general-purpose railway museums that really have their feet on the ground. Who preserves tri-state area transit history? Why is tri-state equipment going to Illinois, Pennsylvania or Maine?

By "feet on their ground" I mean several things - first they are a nonprofit, so unlike the Brookins collection they don't just go "poof" when someone dies. Second they have the capacity to take on a collection, by way of having a usable space of land in a location that is sustainable and which they own outright. If necessary, next to a railroad they also own outright.

I see not a lot of IRM/OERM type security. I think many museums are doing a very good job walking on a high-wire... but that does not mean they are safe.
Author:  Rob Gardner [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
Well, my good buddy Jack Siffert called me on the carpet as I forgot to tout the accomplishments of the Lorain & West Virginia RR restoration effort in north central Ohio. They have been working steadily at reopening the original L&WV from Wellington on the W&LE north to Lorain, OH. They have approximately 6 miles or so in service at this time. Unfortunately their website is not yet used as a tool to reach out to the general public to share what they are working towards or how they are progressing, but Marc Chappo and Jack and the rest of the gang are to be commended. They tend to run mostly for the county fair and at Halloween time and I'm sure Christmas as well.

Jack, feel free to jump in and tell us what you guys are up to this year.

Rob Gardner
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ohio Jinx?
The Lorain and West Virginia has been steadily working our way forward. It may not show publicly but most of the property issues have seemed to stop for the time being. In some instances we bought property to solve the problems. This proves to be the most permanent repair and gives you more freedom to grow in the future.
We finally got a Felony conviction on the A@# clown who stole over a mile of rail and did lots of damage to the property. Restitution has proven to be a little more difficult however.
Rob, you are so right on the assessment of the problem with the website. IT SUCKS!! The person who controls it won‘t relinquish control or make any suggested changes (Think Marc) so it languishes! I am currently trying to put the wraps on a website just for NKP 384 but my day job burns allot of time. If I had the time I would by another domain and start my own and change all of our advertising and let him have his ugly site.
Mr. MacDowell’s quote: By "feet on their ground" I mean several things - first they are a nonprofit, so unlike the Brookins collection they don't just go "poof" when someone dies. Second they have the capacity to take on a collection, by way of having a usable space of land in a location that is sustainable and which they own outright. If necessary, next to a railroad they also own outright.
We have 2 501C’s. We own 38 acres inside of our wye south of state route 18. This does not include the small tract north of 18 that feeds into our 4 track yard that is over a half a mile long. This yard is bordered by lots of farm land that could be brought somewhat affordably. The railroad then runs another 18 miles north. Also as mentioned above we bought even more property. Across the Wheeling main from our south wye leg is the Lorain County fairgrounds. We own everything north of the Wheeling free and clear. I would think this gives us at least one foot on the ground.
The County Park board wants to work with us but this needs some more work to become reality.
We have the common problem of not having enough volunteers. This is compounded by the fact we have one or two people with at best, caustic attitudes. A few more people to replace them would make all the difference in the world towards the public (potential volunteers).
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