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| Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29057 |
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| Author: | GSpro [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
So last I heard she was at steamtown in a million pieces and she was about to be sent back to Altoona. Can someone please confirm this and let me know what the plans for 1361 are? Thanks in advance, I know there's probably tons of topics posted on other sites, but I don't wanna listen to rumors or false stories, lol. |
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| Author: | Frisco1522 [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride. |
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| Author: | Afboone [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Please google their website. The info is there. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
There's a search function up in the upper right. Use it. We're sorry if you're a real newcomer, but seriously, we've beaten this dead iron horse to smithereens. It's all been detailed ad nauseaum. |
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| Author: | Mgoldman [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
At risk of life and limb... Would it be safe to say the engine was brought to Steamtown 'cuz of it's excellent facilities for restoration by a group unrelated to Steamtown and work progressed at a rate relative to the funding until it was discovered that part of the engine would not meet current FRA standards due to wear and tear of an obsolete design used by the PRR - that being a roof sheet that is now too thin in relation to the spacing of the staybolts to meet current standards. And, that while this unexpected issue is major, a solution is available by example of a fix employed by the crew at the Strasburg Railroad in it's work with a similar issue with a similar engine, that being the LIRR #39. I guess I should end that sentence with a question mark? Considering that this is a site on preservation, I don't think it's a question not worth answering unless of course you feel compelled to correct any incorrect input given by others. I have a question in addition to the one that started this thread though if I get no answer, I won't be upset - Where did all the money go? Again, this is a pandora's box of horrors so feel free to blow this one off or if you do answer, be prepared to back your facts up and be specific. _______________________________________________________________________ Now to the valid version of the question at hand: What's going on NOW? Is anyone running the show? Are there active plans to move or even restart the restoration to either display or operation or is it sitting pending resolution in a way similar to Ross's CO #614? /Mitch |
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| Author: | Kevin Gillespie [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | ADMIN: Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Are there active plans to move or even restart the restoration to either display or operation or is it sitting pending resolution in a way similar to Ross's CO #614? /Mitch[ Mitch, I do not know anything you don't on the current status. I'm not going to speculate on what went wrong, and as far as I know there are no plans at this point. But knowing the ability of the board regulars to get hot news posted as soon as it happens, RYPN will be one of the first places to learn of it. As for Ross Rowland's 614, I believe that the only impediment to her being put back in service is a place to run that will offset some of the costs of her restoration. Ross posts here regularly, and I have no doubt that he will post his own reply to your inquiry. In the meantime, this thread will be watched closely and moderated as necessary. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
This bothers me a great deal. Discussion of the K4s, at least as far as what to do with her, shouldn't be a taboo. My case for the 1361 is as follows: Of all the steam locomotives in America, two designs remain iconic before all others; the K4s Pacific and the J3 Hudson. One could be restored to service, the other is extinct. What happened at Steamtown is blamed on a variety of groups, but the in the final analysis, the cure is a known quantity. There is a place that would welcome the restoration project and could finish it in rapid order. Money - all kinds of money was wasted irresponsibly, but it need not be wasted anymore. I would take the position that the lost funds are gone and will not be back. Like so many other endeavors in the past years, money has evaporated to no gain. So what do we do? We don't crawl into a hole and die. We face the issue, re-trench and begin again. A responsible party or corporation should begin a funding drive, just as is done in Britain. I may add that the British often begin with locomotives in poorer shape -even fragmented - and drive to the finish. Subscribers underwrite a share in the completion and expect little more than a certificate or letter of thanks. You know, there is a great deal of private expendable cash still out there. One has to make the effort to find it. A publicized program, supported online and in print, to regain what has been lost, can be put forth. To those who say, "Yeah but where do you run it?", I would respond that until it is completed, there is no place to run it. Bring the locomotive back into operable condition and trips will be run, either at museums, shortlines, or cooperating mainlines. Does it have to be ex-Pennsy rail? No, of course not. Punishing the place of the locomotive as a monument to standardized steam power and the people who comprised the Pennsy, is not only self-defeating, but narrow minded. Punishing the rest of us because others screwed up the restoration is also self-defeating. As a community of railroad historians and steam lovers, we need to work the problem, not make things worse with an enormous interval of time in which more damage can take place. If I am offending anyone by espousing this position, accept my apology and delete the post. |
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| Author: | Romi Romano [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: There's a search function up in the upper right. Use it. We're sorry if you're a real newcomer, but seriously, we've beaten this dead iron horse to smithereens. It's all been detailed ad nauseaum. With a response as terse as this I doubt that a new member would want to post again, never mind visit this site again. This could have been said with a kinder "Net" voice. Come on, how about a little civility here, eh?! Rome |
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| Author: | steamtown observer [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Romi Romano wrote: Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: There's a search function up in the upper right. Use it. We're sorry if you're a real newcomer, but seriously, we've beaten this dead iron horse to smithereens. It's all been detailed ad nauseaum. With a response as terse as this I doubt that a new member would want to post again, never mind visit this site again. This could have been said with a kinder "Net" voice. Come on, how about a little civility here, eh?! Rome Hpefully I won't get deleted again, but the poster joined RYPN 3 days ago and his only posts are either provocative Steamtown or Steamtown related postings. Maybe that's a coincidence but certainly curious way to start out talking about preservation. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Richard Glueck wrote: Of all the steam locomotives in America, two designs remain iconic before all others; the K4s Pacific and the J3 Hudson. Iconic perhaps from a Northeastern perspective? We als have a Southern PS4; several versions of the light pacific; a few American Standard 4-4-0's from the 1940's through the 1940's, the most American design of all; Sierra 3, the most famous (and other 4-6-0s); Lima Superpower berks, the most technologically advanced; 2-8-0's, of which more were built than any other wheel arrangement; N&W modern steam in a variety of flavors; Big Boys, the most bulky; Reading T1s, with the Wootten firebox; a plethora of 4-8-4's; a surprisingly diverse bunch of shortline and industrial power. Other icons like the UP 3 cylinders, and the Santa Fe type, SP Daylight, Death Valley Scotty long lean prairies, each iconic power for other specific non-northeastern roads....... I think we can rule out the iconic argument based on nonregionalism. I sort of like the K4, never met a J3 hudson, but would prefer the PS4 , any 4-4-0, Sierra 3 or a DVS prairie to it if I were emperor. I also have a very soft spot for the light pacifics, especially the FEC variety. We all have our own favorites. Mine are no more iconic than yours. From the POV of the general public, Sierra 3 is probably the closest to "iconic". I also have a preference for a business plan that begins with the market and why it needs to be served, rather than the hardware that "needs" to be made useful - my first question is always "why?" If you don't need it, why expend resources on it? I'm pretty sure somebody took this into consideration many years ago when the project first started. I hope it has also been taken into consideration again as the project has continued to evolve through its several changes. It is possible there is no place for the K to go any more: if so, a nice cosmetic job would be wonderful. If not, perhaps the stars will align this time.......... dave edited to resolve a big finger / little keyboard issue or two |
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| Author: | j32885 [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
The last time I heard anything about of PRR 1361 was that it shipped back to Altoona. The locomotive's boiler and tender were place on 2 flatcars, while the rest of pieces and parts were put into 2 gondolas. The Pennsylvania Railroaders Memorial Museum website seems to only have information about their new roundhouse, and the previous rebuild history on 1361. My understanding is that restoration work on 1361 has stopped, due to in part because the money ran out. Most of the funding for 1361 came from the State Of Pennsylvania. With the way the economy is right now, all of the US state governments are running low in income, especially if for historical preservation. Still, I would love to see PRR 1361 take to the rails again, but at the point I would rather see the locomotive cosmetically rebuilt, than in operational condition. If NS brings back steam and decides to make Altoona it's home-based base of operations, then I would like to them rebuild to entire locomotive from scratch. |
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| Author: | rjenkins [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
Richard Glueck wrote: This bothers me a great deal. Discussion of the K4s, at least as far as what to do with her, shouldn't be a taboo. The topic of the K4s, in and of itself, is not taboo. However, it is pretty high on the list of topics that, for whatever reason, have been a lightning rod for flame wars here on RyPN and other railroad forums. There certainly isn't anything wrong with a civil discussion on the topic, but for many of us just seeing the number 1361 appearing in the subject line is enough to trigger the old "here we go again" reaction. As for the latest status, I heard a rumor she's going to be regauged to run on the Georgetown Loop... |
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| Author: | eze240 [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
At risk of being off topic.....I have to agree with the comment about business plans and serving the market. A good friend of mine was looking for funding for an operation, When asked why he was in business he replied "because the town needs a train operation , to entertain people",etc.... He said this to a person who was a well known operator of a very successful tourist operation. The correct response, of course, was: TO MAKE MONEY........ |
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| Author: | Mgoldman [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
j32885 wrote: The last time I heard anything about of PRR 1361 was that it shipped back to Altoona. The locomotive's boiler and tender were place on 2 flatcars, while the rest of pieces and parts were put into 2 gondolas. You heard wrong - the boiler is still in the roundhouse at Steamtown. Not sure what, if any, parts made it back to Altoona, though the plan was to return everything to the Railroaders Museum at one point. /Mitch |
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| Author: | Mike Tillger [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Someone please fill me in on Pennsy K-4s 1361. |
See this thread for the issues as to why the restoration was halted viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23495&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=1361 Mike Tillger |
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