Besides the (remote?) possibility of a 4449 visit to Baltimore, any ideas or hints what other big steam might be there? 765 seems a good candidate if Fort Wayne can get here back steaming in time. Does anyone know when the B&O Rail Museum might start announcing the list of steam participants in the "Fair of the Iron Horse 175"?

JBeutel611@aol.com

The B&O Museum has been very tight-lipped about possible appearances--too much so, in the view of some local fans.

The Museum has been saying for ages that "at least four big main line steamers" have made tentative commitments to appear, with a final total speculated at around 30 steamers of various sizes. However, no one has made ANY mention of the three biggest obstacles to a big steam extravaganza in Baltimore: C.... S.... X....

I will advise that anything is still possible. But I saw letters asking for possible interest in attending such a Fair ("invitations", if you will) sent far and wide, to some seemingly preposterous operations or owners. We're not talking inviting the East Broad Top to come steaming down to Baltimore, but I know of at least one short line with occasional excursion operations that supposedly chucked the "invitation" in the wastebasket as they were changing hands and management somewhat against their will.

The critical question I have: I cannot possibly fathom EVERY possible attendee managing to raise the funding to travel to Baltimore strictly through private "angel" donations or corporate-level sponsorship. By this stage in the game, SOMEONE would HAVE to be publicly passing the hat to raise money for the trip. For example, if the Fort Wayne group were looking at sending 765, would we not have received letters or press releases saying "Steaming to Baltimore in 2003--with YOUR help....."? Ditto, say, just for wild speculation, the SP Pacifics? Or PRR 1361, or Wilmington & Western 98, or B&M 3713, just to quote some notable nearby steamers now under repair? Even with privately-held steam, wouldn't we be seeing rebuilding or repatriation underway on two notable candidates with some Baltimore ties--Reading & Northern's Reading 2102 and Ross Rowland's C&O 614?

I hate to be a cynic. I badly want to see a Railfair in Baltimore to match the Sacramento shindigs. But so far no one can tell me why I'm not hearing what I consider to be certain prerequisites to a big-steam show. If someone can cite fundraising letters or publicly-announced plans, I'd love to hear of them.

LNER4472@bcpl.net

ADM,

I know how the railroad preservation world gets bogged down in its own mire. It is always easier to say "that won't work, those guys are nuts, that engine's shot." If you listened to most steam mechanics, only their work on their engine is good enough and everyone else is running timebombs fired on the pot they were smoking when they pulled ol' such-and-such out of the park 20 years ago.

We all get sucked in now and then, but your argument that the B&O Fair will be lacking because of a lack of CSX support seems way out of date and way too bleak.

I will post again what I posted last week. Ward has thrown CSX's hat in the ring. "We are proud to partner and celebrate with the B&O Railroad Museum as they embark on this significant celebration," said Michael J. Ward, president of CSX.

What more do you want from them at this point?

Rob

CSX IS PRESENTING SPONSOR OF THE 175 YEAR CELEBRATION: AMERICA ON TRACK: CSX has joined the B&O (Baltimore & Ohio) Railroad Museum as a

presenting sponsor of 175 Years: America on Track, celebrating the 175th anniversary of railroading in America. CSX's $500,000 gift will enable the B&O Railroad Museum to

offer special exhibitions, programs, a rail excursion and special events for families, children, railroad enthusiasts and visitors from around the world interested in America's

heritage. "We are proud to partner and celebrate with the B&O Railroad Museum as they embark on this significant celebration," said Michael J. Ward, president of CSX

Transportation and a Baltimore native. "As an international transportation company that provides rail transportation in 23 states, Washington, D.C. and Canada, we celebrate the

birthplace of American railroading and all it has taught us as well as salute what the future holds for railroading and the nation." Through July 2003, the B&O Railroad Museum

will host this national event with a series of monthly events and the debut of new educational programs and exhibits. Most recently, the Museum unveiled Portraits of American

Railroading, an exhibit that includes images of important American railroad figures from the Smithsonian Institution's National Portrait Gallery. The 16-month celebration

culminates with The Fair of the Iron Horse 175 - a10-day pageant of rare locomotives and citywide festival at Carroll Park in July 2003. "We are delighted that CSX has joined us

to help show the world how railroading touches each of our lives everyday. Through their generosity, visitors from around the world will have the opportunity to take part in an

enriching cultural and educational experience as we celebrate the anniversary of America's first railroad," said Courtney Wilson, executive director of the B&O Railroad Museum.

(CSXT - posted 3/21)

trains@robertjohndavis.com

> I will post again what I posted last week.
> Ward has thrown CSX's hat in the ring.
> "We are proud to partner and celebrate
> with the B&O Railroad Museum as they
> embark on this significant
> celebration," said Michael J. Ward,
> president of CSX.

> What more do you want from them at this
> point?

A written commitment from the CSX Operating Department permitting big steam locomotives to operate under their own power over CSX main lines to Baltimore. Some public indication that some big steam (or even little steam) is making plans to appear. Efforts at fundraising to bring dreams of sending [pick a steam locomotive] to Baltimore.

As we all know, writing a check is a LOT easier than actually doing the physical things that would make a Railfair happen. It's easier to buy nice signs and exhibits than it is to reflue a boiler, tie up your managerial personnel escorting big locomotives that have to squeeze past newer bridges or signals, etc. And with the lead time necessary for things such as FRA clearance, etc. today, I dare say that a restoration anything like the "miracle" 28-day repair of Reading 2101 for the American Freedom Train in 1975 would be impossible today.

I will acknowledge the great things the B&O Museum and CSX have done lately, including excursions. However, there's a big difference between a "turnkey" excursion using contemporary MARC equipment over a lightly-used secondary main line and anything resembling the Chessie Steam Specials or Chessie Safety Express. Indeed, one cynic has argued that even if CSX and a big locomotive like 614 were willing, able, and available, the infrastructure, personnel, track capacity, etc. (not to mention cars, etc.) are not there to do the Steam Specials today.

Trust me, I want to eat crow so badly on this. But I don't think either the B&O Museum is insisting on confidentiality from all parties until some grand announcement (the railfan rumor mill is too active, anyway), nor is everyone waiting to be Number Two to announce their intended participation.

So, out with it, all--who's willing to either say right here on this forum that they're appearing at The Fair of the Iron Horse, or even to admit that they're not allowed to say that they are?

Anyone?

[Looking up crow recipes, just in case.......]

LNER4472@bcpl.net

ADM,

The Fair of the Iron Horse is not about running steam under its own power to Balitmore. What you bemoan isn't required for the Fair.

The Fair is about engines under steam in Baltimore. If CSX tows'em in behind Dash-9's, whoi cares?

I am beginning to sens that you have a need to bash the fest, and I am not sure that is fair.

Satisfying your personal needs for people to "out" information is cheap. Just becasue you are personally not in the loop is not a valid reason to slander the event on the Internet.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to pounce on your posts. Your negativity is apparently unjustified, as you have no more info thant the rest of us on the sidelines.

Rob

> A written commitment from the CSX Operating
> Department permitting big steam locomotives
> to operate under their own power over CSX
> main lines to Baltimore.

trains@robertjohndavis.com

> In this series of posts, I saw mentioned the B&M 3713 as being under repair and considered for a trip to Baltimore.

Folks, I can only speak for myself, and in no way represent SteamtownNHS, its partners, vendors, suppliers or any other past, present or future affiliated entity.

1.) As of right now, the restoration fot the 3713 has somewhat slowed down if not been halted completely. Although the fundraising garnered something over 225K, its a few hundred K quid short. Shop activity is concentrating on the CP 2317, CN 3254 and BLW 26 (i'd bet my right arm the latter won't venture any farther than Carbondale.)

2.) As many of you may know, we're opening rather late this year. Attendence has fallen in recent years and its pretty clear that pleasing the public and reversing this trend is a high priority with the new management. When the 3713 runs, it will be a high draw item. As much fun as it might be to participate in such an event, it would be kind of like loaning the crown jewels to the next door kingdom.

3.) This is an accessioned piece in a Federal museum. As such it is subject to unique requirements, regulation, red tape, bureacracy and considerations that attend Uncle Sam. Its one thing for a 501(c)(3) board to meet and decide to send their engine hundreds of miles away-this is quite another thing.

4.)The 3713 is friction-bearing. Enough said.

4.) Assuming #3 is not insurmountable-so who's got the big bag of cash to finance this. As I recall getting the Milw 261 to Scranton cost something like 50k and it came under its own power. I'll assume the deadheading of non-rollerbearing equipment will more than make up for the shorter distance.

Just a few unfortunately negative thoughts, all IMHO.

By the way, did the L&WV RHS win their TEA21 request in this years funding? They were asking for 200k for the 3713.

mhd@relnet.net

Would not the "Gathering of the Clans" be a major media event and worth it's weight in advertising the event?


lamontdc@adelphia.net

Would you PLEASE, PLEASE note that I said "Just for wild speculation"?

I simply cited the locomotive as an example of a "nearby" locomotive under repair, one that *could* have benefitted from a spirited "if we get the money, it'll go to the Fair!" fundraising effort. Not that I expect to see it appear, or would even advocate its coming to Baltimore. I would personally expect to see a new steam locomotive shipped in from China before I see B&M 3713 in Baltimore, for all the reasons you cited and then some.

But we can dream, can't we? <;-]

LNER4472@bcpl.net

> The Fair is about engines under steam in
> Baltimore. If CSX tows'em in behind
> Dash-9's, whoi cares?

*As noted by "Steamtown Volunteer", the operators would care. I'm no expert, but I do know that towing a steam locomotive dead is probably the least desirable option short of hauling it to the scrapper. In Britain, given the choice between hauling a mainline steamer dead as freight several hundred miles or shipping it by road(!), operators have opted for road shipment nearly all the time, even with big Pacifics (not to mention that it's turning out to be cheaper!). At the very least, a towed steamer should be under light steam to properly lubricate the rods, pistons, etc. when towed, and that may be as problematic as letting it operate light or with a short train.
Also, dead haulage eliminates the option of hauling people on the ferry movements--an awkward arrangement that still made the difference on the bottom line in SR steam days, and may be a factor in shipping a locomotive a long distance.

> I am beginning to sens that you have a need
> to bash the fest, and I am not sure that is
> fair.

> Satisfying your personal needs for people to
> "out" information is cheap. Just
> becasue you are personally not in the loop
> is not a valid reason to slander the event
> on the Internet.

*Having been trained to a minor extent in libel law, I know that nothing I've posted here or elsewhare on this subject qualifies as slander. I'm simply been asking admittedly tough questions--on online forums and in person--that produce awkward silences or political-style "spin-doctoring" (seemingly well-rehearsed), which tells this journalist that something is "up". I got straighter answers from CSX spokesmen during the Howard Street Tunnel fire in Baltimore, for goodness' sake.

Apparently NO ONE is willing--or able, a very important possibility--to publicly admit that they're gearing up to take a steamer or other rail exhibit to Baltimore next summer, nor can anyone even cite the existence of any confidentiality clauses. And the only people I even have gotten to admit to being "invited" (which was actually more of a "letter of interest" asking for FRA specs on possible displays, etc.) are parties with no interest in attending or no confidence in the proposals.

If this proposed Fair comes off like the Sacramento Railfairs or the big Shildon or Rainhill Calvacades in Britain, all with private corporate and/or "angel" sponsorship and WITHOUT any publicly-announced fundraising or hat-passing, then that would be a far greater victory for the rail preservation movement and a bigger success story than all the above fairs put together!

I still have the dish ready for the crow (and if it's bull, may I have Angus prime rib, then?). All I need is either some party saying "We're going to the Fair of the Iron Horse, and here's how!", or somebody saying "Well, we're involved with a project that's thinking about going, but there's this clause saying that all announcements about coming MUST be made by the B&O Museum, or we're not allowed to come....." And heck, someone could even lie like heck about the latter and get away with it!

[My fingers are getting sore from the strumming.....]

LNER4472@bcpl.net

> Would you PLEASE, PLEASE note that I said
> "Just for wild speculation"?

> I would personally expect to see
> a new steam locomotive shipped in from China
> before I see B&M 3713 in Baltimore, for
> all the reasons you cited and then some.

> But we can dream, can't we? <;-]

Sorry, didn't mean to overly alarmist. It is a nice dream-But you know how this works!

So what port can we expect to see this engine arrive at? See if you can get one of those 2-10-2's eh? We have two Mikes at Boone and Suzy-Q, so...

> Would not the "Gathering of the
> Clans" be a major media event and worth
> it's weight in advertising the event?

Given the incredibly sad lack of media coverage of the steam powered commuter operation at the Olympics I do not believe there is much interest in advertising for revenue available.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net