Could someone point me to where I could cross a PC number back to PRR? The PC number is 501273 and it is on a G39b ore jenny.

Neil,


Unless someone has a PC or Conrail roster that would list that exact car and it’s renumbering, you might want to try looking on the car itself.

Look on the center sill just behind the truck bolster. It might be dirty and if you power wash it like I did to mine you might be pleasantly surprised.




Also, you can sand through the paint layers and the number might come up. I was just barely able to make out the PRR number on the car end with the sunlight shining at the right angle.

Scott Kwiatkowski
http://www.prrllc.com

I have sandblasted equipment and as I've gone through each layer of paint found lettering from each previous owner.

I'm asking around on the CRHS site for you Neil:

http://thecrhs.org/CRHSForums?c=showthr ... eadID=2068

Greetings:
And while we are on the subject (sort of), Valley Railroad has a former NYC Automobile car which ended up as NYC X-41276. We got the NYC lettering diagrams, fonts, etc. from NYC Historical Society and would use them if we knew the original NYC number. We did raise "88" which, I believe was the class number (88XXX) for that series of cars...
Thanks in advance for any help on this!
J.David

In theory, couldn't you also get this data from comparing some Equipment Registers from the PRR, PC and Conrail? The G38/G39 ore cars were a class exclusive to the Pennsy, which should help in locating numbering blocks.

Just a thought.

Regards,
John

In theory. But it's still not a given that cars would get renumbered completely in series. For example, I'm looking in an April 1990 ORER, and that car should be in a series 500991-502431, listed as G39/G39a/G39b, with 1255 units. But there's also a bunch of random G7 "gondolas" (in reality ore cars) mixed into that number series.

The real answer is to ask members of the PRRT&HS. Members of any RR's T&H society tend to be the data and roster wonks; this is especially true in the case of the PRR...... I'll pass on your query, though with a convention coming up this weekend in Camp Hill, Pa., it may take a couple days for an answer.......

Mr. Mitchell -

You are correct. We have a F30d class Pennsy flat car originally numbered in the 475300-475549 series. During 1957 and 1958, 86 of these cars were transferred to Trailer Train which renumbered them as 475001-475086. Unfortunately, these numbers were just random numbers assigned by Trailer Train. The car donated to HVRM is TTX # 475037. We intend to restore this to its original PRR paint scheme and number, but WHAT number? I talked to a contact at Trailer Train some years ago, and he told me that they have no record of the original Pennsy numbers for these cars. I have still not given up hope of finding the original number somewhere on the car frame, but so far have had no luck.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, IN)

Answer from one of the PRRT&HS guys:

"Without getting a list to cross reference,carefully wire brush paint away on the center sill about the middle,the top cord of each end of the car on both the right and left hand corners. These were locations of painting the car number."

It sounds like a couple of you are putting off painting and lettering a car because you don't know the exact road number. Couldn't you do the job and just leave the number off, or if you know the general series, letter it "PRR 753___" until you find out the car's actual number?

Another option since you seem to know the later PC number or for Hoosier Valley in the case of the PRR/TT flat why not go with the later paint scheme. At this point both are historic and help to tell a more complete story of the car other than "hey this is what it looked like when brand new". Sometimes the later lives of these cars are what make them so interesting in the first place. Will some railfans not like it? I'm sure. But what do we as preservationists accomplish by always going with replicating the builders photo look? It seems that we as a community tend to ignore everything that has happened to a car since it has left the factory. The general public likely won't care or know the difference about what road name is on it as long as it looks good. So why not go ahead and teach them about how Trailer Train got the TOFC craze going in America at a time when everyone was looking to ship by truck. Or for the G39 ore car how it continued to faithfully serve another two owners before winding up at the museum.

Just some food for thought.

Kevin

Kevin - Actually, that is another option for our PRR F30d here at HVRM. When the Pennsy started its TrucTrain piggyback service, 115 of the F30d's were modified to carry trailers in 1954 and 1955. I have a photo of PRR 475462 so modified. It was from this group that the 86 previously mentioned F30d's were transferred to Trailer Train in 1957 and 1958. This still doesn't help though, with finding the original Pennsy road number for the car.

Les

Not a good option, because it leaves the car incompletely lettered, perhaps forever.

If it is imperative that the car go back in the PRR scheme, the answer is simple; if the correct number doesn't reveal itself during the painting prep, just pick one. In your restoration file, and on your roster, note that the TTX number is documented, but the PRR number is not, and is subject to change when better information is found. When it is, note that in the file, and make the change the next time the car needs to be repainted.

Anyone researching the car to the level of detail that they need the EXACT number should be communicating with the collection curator anyway; the rest of the foamers will be happy that the car looks correct.

So it's better to leave the car completely unrestored, perhaps forever? I'm not sure "picking a number" randomly from the known series is a much better solution than leaving a few digits off, although it would certainly make the car look complete.

Walt Lankenau

Hi, Walt:

Dennis made a good point that the car should appear finished, even if the wrong number is picked. He definitely wasn't suggesting the car remain unrestored.

Say the car was from a series of #123456 to 123987. A random number, perhaps 123567 could be picked. This allows completion of the car, and while the exact road number may be incorrect, it is correctly representing the class.

Say you choose to number 123 with space left for the last three digits. Visitors, whether casual or "foamer", unless they know the particular road's roster, will see the car as #123. If they don't read interpretive signs identifying the car and explaining the choice, they'll be convinced "123" is its number.

At least, with a "random" full number from the series, they'll understand the general position the car held in the roster.

Above all, whichever choice you make (both are reasonable), document the decision WELL and ensure future generations know the number picked is representative of the class, and the precise number remains to be found. This applies to both public and internal documentation.

Also, before you do any sandblasting, needle scaling, or other destructive surface prep, do a thorough search for the number under bright lights, carefully sanding through the layers. Even if all the paint is rusted off, there could be a ghost number in the form of a smoother area with less pitting, where the lettering once lived.

Be sure to document this search in your records for the car!

Best of luck with your car, and hopefully the real number will be found.

As an aside, I take it the "Standard Railroad of the World" didn't bother to frame stamp the road number on its cars?

Steve Hunter

http://www.sfrmeo.ca/
http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/