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WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
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Author:  Sloan [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/art ... h-history-
Author:  p51 [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
WW2 re-enacting is my primary hobby and I have noticed that many RR museums are starting to do more of these. IRM had what I’ve read was a very comprehensive event recently as well.
I’m torn on these events because to me, a WW2 event is in a context where a place takes on the representation of a specific place (like France in 1944 for example) and the group usually removes all the modern context that they can. And to have a often more modern train stateside, well, to me that gets a little silly. Just like the Civil War or western train robbery events with diesels. I just can’t past that. Unless your scenario is that the Germans parachuted into the US and tried to bring the fight here, I can’t wrap my brain around it.
Author:  superheater [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
I think the proper interpretive context is something to illustrate the linkage between the railroads and the stateside war effort as the "arsenal of democracy" got the men and material to either coast for battle theater deployment.

Without the stateside effort, there was no island hopping, no D-day...
Author:  p51 [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
superheater wrote:
I think the proper interpretive context is something to illustrate the linkage between the railroads and the stateside war effort as the "arsenal of democracy" got the men and material to either coast for battle theater deployment.
Without the stateside effort, there was no island hopping, no D-day...

Oh, I agree totally with you there. I think Straburg's event is more of a deployment thing as well.
But a normal US RR museum with german slugging it out among rusting boxcars? That's like a bad Twilight Zone episode...
Author:  wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
IRM's event was fairly comprehensive. Besides the fight at the "Anzio" railyard, they highlighed the North Platte Canteen. They even had female reenactors dressed as the Rockford Peaches.

Yes, the equipment may not be right, but it brings in visitors, and these visitors are more likely to return possibly. It's good exposure to bring people in that may not otherwise come in.
Author:  Bobharbison [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
At the NRM? "Circle the trains boys, they've got us surrounded!"
Oh, wait, that's a bad western movie...

OK, I can understand the time warp aspect, and the major distorting of history here, but I think a lot would depend on how you present. Consider it more as a "play", where the actors are what's important, and the trains are only stage pieces. Tell folks "this will give you a bit of an idea what it was like", rather than presenting it as an accurate historic representation. With proper presentation, and a bit of imagination on the audience's part, then maybe it would work.

After all, what are the other options? Don't present it all? Bring in historically accurate equipment from Europe? (Hope Bill Gates is on your board of directors).

Sometimes, ok often times in the railway preservation field, you try and do the best with what you have available.
Author:  PCook [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
This would have been a nice concept back in the 1970s and 1980s when the WW2 veterans in the family were all in their 50s through 70s. They have all passed away now, and I am not sure the familiarity with US history among the younger generations is going to be enough to support this kind of event.

PC
Author:  Dave [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
The Civil War has been over for generations (except in Alabama) and reenactments are still popular. I'm wondering if we will ever see Viet Nam reenacted.......and sort of hoping not (once was enough for me, thank you). WW II was the last time our country showed itself proudly as a military power, backed by the political will to win, with no holds barred, and I think that still resonates even after subsequent miring in proxy wars and the current situation in the middle east - perhhaps even more so.

If we want to know how it plays, we can just ask those who do them. there are enough examples out there.

dave
Author:  Bobharbison [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
Quote:
I'm wondering if we will ever see Viet Nam reenacted.......and sort of hoping not (once was enough for me, thank you).


That probably has a lot to do with why you didn't see much re-enacting by the veterans. They'd "been there and done that", and had no need to re-live it.

My grandfather was in the war, and was even part of the Normandy Invasion. He very rarely talked about it, it wasn't a subject he enjoyed. When he did, it was a difficult subject. He felt, probably correctly, that most people really just didn't understand what war was all about.

Watching John Wayne movies just doesn't cut it, since you know it's a movie. He said that even hunters didn't have any idea what he went through, and until somebody hands you a gun and says "If you don't kill them, they'll kill you..." you really can't relate to what happened. I'm not sure if he actually had to kill anyone, I think he may not have, but as I mentioned we didn't discuss the subject much. I do know that he did see battle action, and it was something that deeply affected him.

I know many vets, including him, were also proud of what they did, but I don't think that most of them wanted to re-live the experience of battle.


I'm not trying to be political, but rather to explain some of the reasons this stuff takes more thought than it first appears.
Author:  Robert Conner [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
I'm glad to see the combining of two hobbies. As a Civil War reenactor myself, I'd love to see more events that work with railroads. After all it WAS the first war in history where troops were moved by rail into battle, the unit I am part of was actually the first unit from North Carolina to do so at First Manassas.

As pivotal as railroads were during conflicts, I'm surprised we don't see them incorporated more often.

Dave, there are Vietnam reenactors, I'm friends with several people that are active in that hobby. I'll have to double check to see where all they go, Pretty sure there is a big event at Charleston every year.
Author:  p51 [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
Many points are well made here and the IRM event did the Platte Canteen which the context worked very well with. I'm told that event went over very well.
As much as I'd like to take part in a cross-hobby event like this, I can't help but think how odd the context would likely look if on stood back and said, "Hmm, 'Germans' fighting over a patch of the US alongside streamliner equipment along a modern highway?" Most WW2 events take place way out in the sticks to avoid the odd 'backgrounds' like this.
Bobharbison wrote:
That probably has a lot to do with why you didn't see much re-enacting by the veterans. They'd "been there and done that", and had no need to re-live it.
You'd be surprised. There are fewer WW2 vets into the hobby due to their age but when i got into it I often ran across people dressing the part who'd done it back in WW2. My group has a WW2 vet in it, and he shows up with his restored WW2 Jeep in his WW2 uniform for parades! Abd this guy was in the thick of it, got captured by the Germans during the Bulge in 1944 with the 28th Division. Bob, if you ever want some WW2 guys to do an event at MT Rainier Scenic, look me up!
Image
Dave wrote:
I'm wondering if we will ever see Viet Nam reenacted.......and sort of hoping not (once was enough for me, thank you).
You'd be surprised as well. Google the term, "vietnam re-enacting" and you'll find dozens of groups worldwide who do that. And you'll find a few vets from that war taking part, too! Heck, there are even groups dedicated to re-creating the current wars in the middle east!
Author:  superheater [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
This would have been a nice concept back in the 1970s and 1980s when the WW2 veterans in the family were all in their 50s through 70s. They have all passed away now, and I am not sure the familiarity with US history among the younger generations is going to be enough to support this kind of event.

I had the opportunity to go to the World War II weekend (an annual event) at the Mid Atlantic Air Museum in Reading on June 6. There was literally thousands of people there (ok, there were 4 P-51's, a couple B-17's, A Spitfire.. basically everything but a B-29 -none flying right now) plenty of people interested.. and yes, there were South Pacific set ups that seem out of place in Pennsylvania, but the interest is there...
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
Bobharbison wrote:
Quote:
I'm wondering if we will ever see Viet Nam reenacted.......and sort of hoping not (once was enough for me, thank you).


That probably has a lot to do with why you didn't see much re-enacting by the veterans. They'd "been there and done that", and had no need to re-live it.

My grandfather was in the war, and was even part of the Normandy Invasion. He very rarely talked about it, it wasn't a subject he enjoyed. When he did, it was a difficult subject. He felt, probably correctly, that most people really just didn't understand what war was all about.

Watching John Wayne movies just doesn't cut it, since you know it's a movie. He said that even hunters didn't have any idea what he went through, and until somebody hands you a gun and says "If you don't kill them, they'll kill you..." you really can't relate to what happened. I'm not sure if he actually had to kill anyone, I think he may not have, but as I mentioned we didn't discuss the subject much. I do know that he did see battle action, and it was something that deeply affected him.

I know many vets, including him, were also proud of what they did, but I don't think that most of them wanted to re-live the experience of battle.


I'm not trying to be political, but rather to explain some of the reasons this stuff takes more thought than it first appears.


My father served 3.5 years as a combat engineer in WW2--North Africa, Sicily, and Italy--with both legs shot at different times. And he was exempt from the draft as a Quaker.

He said that, during his oh-so-brief time in the VFW or American Legion, you found that the amount of time/energy expended bragging about your war duty was inversely proportional to the amount of combat you actually saw.

On the other hand, there have been military-reenactor groups that have been invited to "living history" exhibits at cultural festivals...... and then been asked not to bring any weapons. To quote most of them I have met who got that one: "WTF?!?!?"
Author:  Melanie [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WW II re-enactment at National Railroad Museum
Sorry folks - just can't let this one go -

Respectfully, my Father (17th Airborne Division) and Mother (US Army Nurse Corps) would disagree with you
about the "They're all dead now" statement...

As an aside - Dad had 46 years on the RR when he retired; Mom served on Hospital Trains during WWII.

Proud to be their daughter,
Melanie
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